Call or Fold

MynaFrett

You have no noted history/reads on opponent. Do you call river as played?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Chub532	Small blind		150.00	150.00	8605.00
Jimbob1963	Big blind		300.00	450.00	12570.00
	Your hole cards	K A
ellimae9	Fold
BACHEY1966	Fold
avonmum	Raise		900.00	1350.00	15860.00
MynaFrett	Raise		2700.00	4050.00	8710.00
Chub532	Fold
Jimbob1963	Fold
avonmum	Call		1800.00	5850.00	14060.00
Flop
		Q K 5
avonmum	Check
MynaFrett	Bet		1500.00	7350.00	7210.00
avonmum	Call		1500.00	8850.00	12560.00
Turn
		9
avonmum	Bet		600.00	9450.00	11960.00
MynaFrett	Call		600.00	10050.00	6610.00
River
		3
avonmum	All-in		11960.00	22010.00	0.00
MynaFrett

MynaFrett

No ICM or cashing considerations to worry about as is early/mid-game.

stokefc

Fold

i fold only because i have notes , i probably fold anyway to an unknown with 20 bigs behind
somebody better will give a detailed reply why its a shove or fold @stayorgo or @MattBates

Allan23

Fold

Fold on the forum, call on the table

Essexphil

Call

Call

Not loving life-probably better to shove on the turn.
But nearly half your chips already in, 3-1 on your money...sigh call for me

chappo100

Fold

im with stokefc I have notes on this villian to suggest fold is good. Kind of sucks without having an idea of how tight his 3x range is pre. If you think he is opening suited broadways in his 3x range pre I would just fold river. If you think AK is 4betting pre i'd fold. Player pool in general defo has like KTo KJo type hands which just start spewing it in.
Did he had KdJd KdTd or JdTd?
suprised if he would lead turn so small with 55, mainly seeing KK QQ 4bet pre.

MynaFrett

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. I might leave it another day then reveal some more information and maybe ask another follow-up question or two.

Not sure if I've played with you very much at all @chappo100 (?) but I've just looked up your 'credentials' and I have to say that may very well be the best 750 game streak at £6 ABI I've seen - beautiful looking graph, GG's sir.

MynaFrett

@Essexphil you make an interesting point about just getting it in on the turn.

My plan for the hand after seeing this particular flop was to small bet (and stack off versus raises) utilising a size that leaves a nice stack-to-pot-ratio for shoving turns when opponent just calls flop - I expect to be shoving turns at a very high frequency. What I wasn't prepared for (and what actually threw me for a loop) was opponents min turn donk out of flow... this is what makes the hand unusual and interesting (in my opinion). I find myself facing a situation I wasn't expecting at all and have to quickly assess what this says about their range and the merits of calling versus shoving with this particular combo of AK when I was expecting to be checked to and shove myself.

@chappo100 I agree (for the most part) with your assessment of villains likely range.

So, when deciding if we should call or fold river;

-Do we think they can ever show up with potentially overplayed 'value' hands we beat?

-Could the turn flat call encourage them to follow through with some turn bluffs/semi-bluffs on this potentially scary river when theoretically they have more flushes in their 3 bet flatting range than we should have in our 3 betting range in this spot at this stack depth - might they realise this on some level without actually realising this in theory? (it's a micro stakes MTT )

-Does our particular combo of AK (AdKc) have any impact on our river decision and if so, to what extent?

-Do we just expect villain to show up with 2 pair+ and mostly flushes?

misterpj

hi myna, big sigh, and Fold, every single time.

50p,says you layed that down? wp.

chappo100

Fold

Do we think they can ever show up with potentially overplayed 'value' hands we beat?
yeah this happens a lot, only thing is 3x pre in theory suggests a tighter range which may limit Kx hands which he may lead small on turn to "see where he is". If he had say limp called a 4x iso raise from you I am not folding ever and having a wee chuckle at K7 shoving river

I think most in player pool seem to lead out of position bigger with 2 pair so I'd actually be pretty surprised if he had KQ here.

Wouldn't give people at micros to much credit for looking past their own two cards, although we are playing micros so who knows having the Ace of diamonds limits his semi bluffs (which would have made sense given his line) as we block his nut flush draws although yeah makes sense with King of diamonds that sort of pair and flush draw which looks nice to villian when villian isn't consider our 3betting range. AxJd AxTd picking up gutshot FD could be involved potentially. Actually don't think we see 2 pair here all that often given sizing as less K9 Q9 given action pre flop although we can't right this off completely

forgot to mention I'm with Essexphil on turn shove to. Guess its marginal either way and I imagine you beat these games pretty well and still have a decent workable stack may be a better spot. popcorn ready for what he had. Hoping you didnt fold and he showed KJ to show he had it

Duesenberg

Fold

If this was on stream I'd be folding preflop just to enrage the chat pros .

As played, I think it's a fine river fold. I think it's very rare that villain is jamming worse for value and even rarer that they have air when using that specific line and size.

misterpj

"myna".... Big sigh, Fold, every time, unless, player notes, denote, candy jar, StickEE, fingers❤️

SR23

The old call-flop-bet-small-on-gin-turn-jam-river line is nearly always the nuts or thereabouts in my experience. Pretty sure I fold riv but sometimes call if frustrated. That shows them.

MynaFrett

@miniman88 I notice that you have taken part in this poll and I would love to pick your big poker brain

Do you mind if I ask you how you play turns here facing the unusual small donk lead out of flow and whether you play (or consider playing) combo's of AA/AK with a diamond any differently to those combo's without a diamond?

Also, I know you have selected 'Fold' on the river as played (because we just expect to see too many value hands and too few bluffs right? And you regularly say "nobody ever bluffs" ) but aren't we just going to have way too few calls on river because we have no JT and very, very few flushes ourselves - AdQd isn't possible so that leaves AdKd and maybe some Ad5d/Ad4d for some debateable low frequency 3 bet bluffs pre-flop...

This leads me to ask you @goldnballz as another very good winning player who selected 'Call' in the poll whether you are calling this combo of AK on river as played (and presumably AA with the diamond too?) and folding AA/AK without the diamond?
Will also extend that question to @Allan23 as you said "call at the table..."

Danyo0

Fold

I voted fold, I feel the donk lead on the turn was to buy a cheap showdown if they miss the flush, how quick was the all in on the river?

Danyo0

Fold

Unless they turned a set or straight hoping for you to re raise them on the turn. With the 30 sec clock I think I would talk myself into a timeout fold.

MynaFrett

Danyo0 said:

I voted fold, I feel the donk lead on the turn was to buy a cheap showdown if they miss the flush, how quick was the all in on the river?

I remember the all-in on river as being quite quick actually... I did timeout fold...

MynaFrett

Probably dragged this on long enough now.

MynaFrett

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Chub532	Small blind		150.00	150.00	8605.00
Jimbob1963	Big blind		300.00	450.00	12570.00
	Your hole cards	K A
ellimae9	Fold
BACHEY1966	Fold
avonmum	Raise		900.00	1350.00	15860.00
MynaFrett	Raise		2700.00	4050.00	8710.00
Chub532	Fold
Jimbob1963	Fold
avonmum	Call		1800.00	5850.00	14060.00
Flop
		Q K 5
avonmum	Check
MynaFrett	Bet		1500.00	7350.00	7210.00
avonmum	Call		1500.00	8850.00	12560.00
Turn
		9
avonmum	Bet		600.00	9450.00	11960.00
MynaFrett	Call		600.00	10050.00	6610.00
River
		3
avonmum	All-in		11960.00	22010.00	0.00
MynaFrett	Fold
avonmum	Show	9 J
avonmum	Win		10050.00		10050.00
avonmum	Return		11960.00	0.00	22010.00

TheEdge949

Fold

Does that mean everyones notes now get an update?

thejudge10

when you let him take control of the pot ,you should have folded. you bet 1500 on the flop, then call 600 on the turn with 2 diamonds , when the 3rd diamond comes fold