I largely agree, but money rules, & the various sports governing bodies must take most of the blame for sheer greed. They have the choice of giving it to the terrestrial channels or selling it to the subscription platforms.
2 Things cost us that game. A pointless declaration and the bowling tactics in the last hour.
The declaration with Root and Robinson looking good probably cost us 30 / 40 runs even if we'd just chucked the bat at everything. Those runs would have put the game out of reach of The Aussies.
Trying to bounce out tail enders by inducing a false pull or hook. Either get catchers in close and give it sweet chin or take the new ball and bowl properly. Even in village cricket the tail would rather face a barrage of not very good short stuff than quality line and length. short pitched is ok done properly i.e. 3/4 very close catchers, but asking lower order batters to score on a flat pitch when you are threatening the stumps is even more effective. England did neither.
I don't care about, entertaining, thrilling, exciting close games. When it comes to England and especially The Ashes I only care about winning.
I don't know if we're saying the same thing but I think tail enders would be happy facing spin/slow balls, my option would be pepper them with fast balls and not let them settle and keep them on their toes ready to make mistakes.
England’s mission statement is to play entertaining cricket. In an interview either last night or this morning either Anderson or Broad specifically said the dressing room doesn’t talk in terms of winning and losing. In that respect England achieved their goal, a riveting test match from start to finish, the viewing public will be salivating at the prospect of four more of those. Of course England and their supporters would have loved to see us come out on the right side of the result, but I’d rather take a defeat like that, than watch a boring five days of tedious cricket. We can debate the why we lost etc, that’s all part of the fun, but ultimately England did what they set out to do, Entertain. For mine, the selection of Moeen Ali was a huge mistake, I said on this thread I would have played Ahmed, I think a Leg Spinner , with the ability to get more bounce and turn the ball either way would, on that pitch, probably have won the game. Anderson should have been omitted for Wood, Anderson is better suited to Lords and now you have the conundrum of do you play the same seam attack next week. With Stokes only really at 25 to 35% fit to bowl, England were short on variation once the ball got old and Moeen’s finger lost its first seven layers of skin. Interesting selection decisions to come. You can debate the declaration, England’s thoughts would have been along the lines of,do what the opposition wanted least, half an hour of batting, after a long day of chasing leather , was probably the thing the Aussies really didn’t want. Had we taken wickets it would have been a master stroke. Things to also remember, the New ball was due, so belting Lyon everywhere was not going to be an option, also, if Root or Robinson, who should have batted above Broad , got out, do you really want to expose Anderson to Cummins steaming in with a new cherry? IMO the main reason for the loss was England’s failure to take multiple chances when they came along. Green should have been stumped second ball, Carey got a couple of lives and that meant England’s lead was 7 instead of being around 100, possibly more. The worry is that neither Smith or Labuschagne contributed to the Aussies score over four knocks, not sure that will happen again. It may well be that Moeen apart England go with the same side with probably Wood playing , as they seem reluctant to play Ahmed . Traditionally Lords is not a big spinning ground, so that’s probably the way they go. I’m really looking forward to next week
Wood definately should play, England have nobody as quick as he is. Another option if Jonny doesn't improve behind the stumps is keep him in as a batsman and give Pope the gloves. Thought Bairstow looked a very average wicketkeeper but maybe he's just rusty.
The only problem with Bazball is that we are always going to leave sides with quality batting line ups enough time to run us down. It's ok scoring 600 / 700 in quick time over 2 innings but then you leave teams like Australia 3 days or more to grind it out and I'm not that confident we can bowl them out twice often enough.
The England team may prefer style over substance, and that's fine while they are competitive, but when they get skittled out cheaply, and it will happen at some point, and probably more than once, then I think the public will begin to turn.
I can imagine Wisden's statement now The 2023 Ashes proved to be one of the most entertaining in history culminating in a 3 -1 victory for the Tourists.
I'm not against the new way England want to play but let's understand the division between daring, entertaining and compelling and reckless.
Wood definately should play, England have nobody as quick as he is. Another option if Jonny doesn't improve behind the stumps is keep him in as a batsman and give Pope the gloves. Thought Bairstow looked a very average wicketkeeper but maybe he's just rusty.
The only problem with Bazball is that we are always going to leave sides with quality batting line ups enough time to run us down. It's ok scoring 600 / 700 in quick time over 2 innings but then you leave teams like Australia 3 days or more to grind it out and I'm not that confident we can bowl them out twice often enough.
The England team may prefer style over substance, and that's fine while they are competitive, but when they get skittled out cheaply, and it will happen at some point, and probably more than once, then I think the public will begin to turn.
I can imagine Wisden's statement now The 2023 Ashes proved to be one of the most entertaining in history culminating in a 3 -1 victory for the Tourists.
I'm not against the new way England want to play but let's understand the division between daring, entertaining and compelling and reckless.
Are you crazy? Give Pope gloves???? Literally 0% chance
Wood definately should play, England have nobody as quick as he is. Another option if Jonny doesn't improve behind the stumps is keep him in as a batsman and give Pope the gloves. Thought Bairstow looked a very average wicketkeeper but maybe he's just rusty.
The only problem with Bazball is that we are always going to leave sides with quality batting line ups enough time to run us down. It's ok scoring 600 / 700 in quick time over 2 innings but then you leave teams like Australia 3 days or more to grind it out and I'm not that confident we can bowl them out twice often enough.
The England team may prefer style over substance, and that's fine while they are competitive, but when they get skittled out cheaply, and it will happen at some point, and probably more than once, then I think the public will begin to turn.
I can imagine Wisden's statement now The 2023 Ashes proved to be one of the most entertaining in history culminating in a 3 -1 victory for the Tourists.
I'm not against the new way England want to play but let's understand the division between daring, entertaining and compelling and reckless.
Are you crazy? Give Pope gloves???? Literally 0% chance
Why ? He's kept before at International level.
Umpires are great characters. We used to have 1 in the Stone League called "5 O'clock Finger". If he rocked up to officiate you always batted first if possible, field 2nd and then appeal for everything after 5pm when the pub had opened, honestly you never lost.
There was another "Molasses Michael" I swear it took a full minute to get any reaction to an appeal. The only man to make Umpire Buckner look rushed.
Comments
@lucy4
I largely agree, but money rules, & the various sports governing bodies must take most of the blame for sheer greed. They have the choice of giving it to the terrestrial channels or selling it to the subscription platforms.
Ahem, this be fortress Edgbaston, a mile down the road from where I sit.
Of course. Senior moment.
Yes, but a great game, & England gave their best, so no complaints. Sets the Series up nicely too.
The declaration with Root and Robinson looking good probably cost us 30 / 40 runs even if we'd just chucked the bat at everything. Those runs would have put the game out of reach of The Aussies.
Trying to bounce out tail enders by inducing a false pull or hook. Either get catchers in close and give it sweet chin or take the new ball and bowl properly. Even in village cricket the tail would rather face a barrage of not very good short stuff than quality line and length. short pitched is ok done properly i.e. 3/4 very close catchers, but asking lower order batters to score on a flat pitch when you are threatening the stumps is even more effective. England did neither.
I don't care about, entertaining, thrilling, exciting close games. When it comes to England and especially The Ashes I only care about winning.
Of course England and their supporters would have loved to see us come out on the right side of the result, but I’d rather take a defeat like that, than watch a boring five days of tedious cricket.
We can debate the why we lost etc, that’s all part of the fun, but ultimately England did what they set out to do, Entertain.
For mine, the selection of Moeen Ali was a huge mistake, I said on this thread I would have played Ahmed, I think a Leg Spinner , with the ability to get more bounce and turn the ball either way would, on that pitch, probably have won the game. Anderson should have been omitted for Wood, Anderson is better suited to Lords and now you have the conundrum of do you play the same seam attack next week. With Stokes only really at 25 to 35% fit to bowl, England were short on variation once the ball got old and Moeen’s finger lost its first seven layers of skin. Interesting selection decisions to come.
You can debate the declaration, England’s thoughts would have been along the lines of,do what the opposition wanted least, half an hour of batting, after a long day of chasing leather , was probably the thing the Aussies really didn’t want. Had we taken wickets it would have been a master stroke. Things to also remember, the New ball was due, so belting Lyon everywhere was not going to be an option, also, if Root or Robinson, who should have batted above Broad , got out, do you really want to expose Anderson to Cummins steaming in with a new cherry?
IMO the main reason for the loss was England’s failure to take multiple chances when they came along. Green should have been stumped second ball, Carey got a couple of lives and that meant England’s lead was 7 instead of being around 100, possibly more.
The worry is that neither Smith or Labuschagne contributed to the Aussies score over four knocks, not sure that will happen again. It may well be that Moeen apart England go with the same side with probably Wood playing , as they seem reluctant to play Ahmed . Traditionally Lords is not a big spinning ground, so that’s probably the way they go.
I’m really looking forward to next week
Another option if Jonny doesn't improve behind the stumps is keep him in as a batsman and give Pope the gloves. Thought Bairstow looked a very average wicketkeeper but maybe he's just rusty.
The only problem with Bazball is that we are always going to leave sides with quality batting line ups enough time to run us down. It's ok scoring 600 / 700 in quick time over 2 innings but then you leave teams like Australia 3 days or more to grind it out and I'm not that confident we can bowl them out twice often enough.
The England team may prefer style over substance, and that's fine while they are competitive, but when they get skittled out cheaply, and it will happen at some point, and probably more than once, then I think the public will begin to turn.
I can imagine Wisden's statement now The 2023 Ashes proved to be one of the most entertaining in history culminating in a 3 -1 victory for the Tourists.
I'm not against the new way England want to play but let's understand the division between daring, entertaining and compelling and reckless.
I'm a qualified umpire now moving swiftly through the ranks. If anyone would like to educate me about cricket I'm all ears
Umpires are great characters. We used to have 1 in the Stone League called "5 O'clock Finger". If he rocked up to officiate you always batted first if possible, field 2nd and then appeal for everything after 5pm when the pub had opened, honestly you never lost.
There was another "Molasses Michael" I swear it took a full minute to get any reaction to an appeal. The only man to make Umpire Buckner look rushed.