1 of the major differences is that you believe far more in what the Press says than I do.
It is most unlikely that there will ever be tax payable on the basic state pension. Not because Governments-any Governments-are kind. But because that would cause an enormous amount of paperwork, which would entirely negate any gains made from taxing it.
Will Pensioners with additional private pensions be increasingly subject to tax? Yes. Will people in receipt of just the State Pension be taxed? No. That will remain as, at worst, the entire zero rate band.
All political parties continue to do what is best for their short-term futures. At the expense of the entire nation's long term future.
That is why no-one dares touch the triple lock. Despite the fact that it is unaffordable. Why Final Salary Schemes continue for Civil Servants and MPs-despite the fact that we cannot afford them. They have almost entirely disappeared from the Private Sector. Simply because they are unaffordable. Unless, of course, you are spending someone else's money.
You mention that it would be better to abandon the triple lock and ensure Allowances keep pace with inflation. The trouble is that this would benefit wealthier Pensioners. At the expense of poorer ones. Speaking selfishly, that would suit me going forward. It's just that I don't just think what is best for me.
I know you keep making the same point. But it is not quite true. When you say that the freezing of pensions adversely affects the poor, that is just not true. It affects the better off pensioners-the poor did not, and do not, pay income tax. Simply because they do not receive enough to pay tax.
A Pension fund for 50,000 people in Wales grew by almost £8m-a-week last year
Or, more accurately, the richer 60% of pensioners-as at least 40% pay no tax at all. And will continue to pay no tax at all. Something that article completely ignored.
Wealthier pensioners used to have to pay 20% tax on income over and above £12,500. Whereas everyone else had to pay 30%. And this is being adjusted to 20% v 26%.
Meanwhile, everyone else has to work longer and receive pensions later to pay for current pensioners.
Who still manage to claim this is somehow unfair. To them. While banging on about frozen tax thresholds. Conveniently forgetting that it applies to everyone else, too.
The privileged generation. Who steadfastly fail to recognise it.
Half a MILLION more pensioners are paying income tax, latest HMRC figures show
More pensioners than ever are now paying tax on their income, according to latest figures from HMRC.
The number of people over state pension age paying income tax rose from 7.85million in 2023/24 to 8.51million in 2024/25 - an increase of 660,000.
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
Research by the Institute of Fiscal Studies shows that 65 per cent of those aged 65 and over are paying income tax, up from 48 per cent in 2010/11.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
Steve Webb, partner at LCP and This Is Money's pension columnist said: 'These new figures from HMRC are very timely and help to inform the debate about pensioners and tax.
'They show that a combination of frozen tax thresholds and significant increases in the state pension means the number of pensioners paying tax has continued to soar.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
I get that you believe that Pensioners should be treated differently from everyone else. It is natural for every age group to believe that the tax burden should fall in other age groups rather than theirs.
It is certainly an argument that tax freezes cause people to start paying tax when they previously did not. But that is not "pensioners"-that is everyone whose pay or benefits rises over the threshold. It is just as true for someone earning £100,000 a year as someone earning £15,000-a small part of their income is taxed whereas it previously was not.
Is that "fair"? Taken in isolation, no. The trouble is if you do not increase tax via their back door there, you have to tax other people more.
There are always idealists out there who believe the answer is taxing the super-rich, or windfall taxes on certain companies. The trouble is that those people and companies employ professionals to ensure they legally avoid those taxes. So it never raises the money that is planned. That game has been going on for thousands of years. With little or no success.
Pensioners need to pay their fair share. Just like everyone else. Except, of course, the people who are most able to pay. They never will. Not saying that is fair. It is just the real world we live in.
I get that you believe that Pensioners should be treated differently from everyone else. It is natural for every age group to believe that the tax burden should fall in other age groups rather than theirs.
It is certainly an argument that tax freezes cause people to start paying tax when they previously did not. But that is not "pensioners"-that is everyone whose pay or benefits rises over the threshold. It is just as true for someone earning £100,000 a year as someone earning £15,000-a small part of their income is taxed whereas it previously was not.
Is that "fair"? Taken in isolation, no. The trouble is if you do not increase tax via their back door there, you have to tax other people more.
There are always idealists out there who believe the answer is taxing the super-rich, or windfall taxes on certain companies. The trouble is that those people and companies employ professionals to ensure they legally avoid those taxes. So it never raises the money that is planned. That game has been going on for thousands of years. With little or no success.
Pensioners need to pay their fair share. Just like everyone else. Except, of course, the people who are most able to pay. They never will. Not saying that is fair. It is just the real world we live in.
I just posted an article that contradicts some of the claims that have been previously made on this thread.. I dont believe that pensioners should have preferential treatment. Although that would be pretty difficult to argue, when you consider the more recent actions of the Tory government. The reduction in NI contributions, do not affect pensioners. The freezing of the tax threshold, affects pensioners, and low earners the most. I am pepared to argue for fairness for anyone.
Some of the bits that surprised me in the above article were as follows,
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
I get that you believe that Pensioners should be treated differently from everyone else. It is natural for every age group to believe that the tax burden should fall in other age groups rather than theirs.
It is certainly an argument that tax freezes cause people to start paying tax when they previously did not. But that is not "pensioners"-that is everyone whose pay or benefits rises over the threshold. It is just as true for someone earning £100,000 a year as someone earning £15,000-a small part of their income is taxed whereas it previously was not.
Is that "fair"? Taken in isolation, no. The trouble is if you do not increase tax via their back door there, you have to tax other people more.
There are always idealists out there who believe the answer is taxing the super-rich, or windfall taxes on certain companies. The trouble is that those people and companies employ professionals to ensure they legally avoid those taxes. So it never raises the money that is planned. That game has been going on for thousands of years. With little or no success.
Pensioners need to pay their fair share. Just like everyone else. Except, of course, the people who are most able to pay. They never will. Not saying that is fair. It is just the real world we live in.
I just posted an article that contradicts some of the claims that have been previously made on this thread.. I dont believe that pensioners should have preferential treatment. Although that would be pretty difficult to argue, when you consider the more recent actions of the Tory government. The reduction in NI contributions, do not affect pensioners. The freezing of the tax threshold, affects pensioners, and low earners the most. I am pepared to argue for fairness for anyone.
Some of the bits that surprised me in the above article were as follows,
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
Those are 2 important statements. And 1 is completely wrong. While the other is extremely misleading.
"Pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16-64". Nonsense. Rubbish. Piffle.
If an "expert" is really telling you that the 12 million people in receipt of the State Pension are paying more income tax than the 42 million people aged 16-64 (the outdated "working age" years, then they are not an "expert". They are a moron.
What that person meant to say (on the assumption he is not an idiot) is that "Pensioners are more likely to pay income tax as a percentage of that group than those aged 16-64". A totally different thing. That is just saying that people paying at least £1 in income tax are more likely as they get older.
There are a whole host of reasons for that. People in receipt of pensions tend to get them as and when they choose. Unlike a 16 year old, nearly all of which are studying. The unemployed. The sick. The Housewife. The person who chooses to be economically inactive (of which there are millions).
It also neglects to mention that far more people aged over 65 are still working.
"'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception."
Technically, may well be true. Because when you add in the Pensioners still working, those in receipt of 2nd Pensions (including the S2P), may well be more than 50%. Although, of course, a considerable majority of those people (like you) will be paying very low amounts of tax.
So why all these column inches from Companies in the papers? They couldn't be Companies who want to charge big fat fees to Pensioners to help them with their tax problems, could they?
I get that you believe that Pensioners should be treated differently from everyone else. It is natural for every age group to believe that the tax burden should fall in other age groups rather than theirs.
It is certainly an argument that tax freezes cause people to start paying tax when they previously did not. But that is not "pensioners"-that is everyone whose pay or benefits rises over the threshold. It is just as true for someone earning £100,000 a year as someone earning £15,000-a small part of their income is taxed whereas it previously was not.
Is that "fair"? Taken in isolation, no. The trouble is if you do not increase tax via their back door there, you have to tax other people more.
There are always idealists out there who believe the answer is taxing the super-rich, or windfall taxes on certain companies. The trouble is that those people and companies employ professionals to ensure they legally avoid those taxes. So it never raises the money that is planned. That game has been going on for thousands of years. With little or no success.
Pensioners need to pay their fair share. Just like everyone else. Except, of course, the people who are most able to pay. They never will. Not saying that is fair. It is just the real world we live in.
I just posted an article that contradicts some of the claims that have been previously made on this thread.. I dont believe that pensioners should have preferential treatment. Although that would be pretty difficult to argue, when you consider the more recent actions of the Tory government. The reduction in NI contributions, do not affect pensioners. The freezing of the tax threshold, affects pensioners, and low earners the most. I am pepared to argue for fairness for anyone.
Some of the bits that surprised me in the above article were as follows,
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
Those are 2 important statements. And 1 is completely wrong. While the other is extremely misleading.
"Pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16-64". Nonsense. Rubbish. Piffle.
If an "expert" is really telling you that the 12 million people in receipt of the State Pension are paying more income tax than the 42 million people aged 16-64 (the outdated "working age" years, then they are not an "expert". They are a moron.
What that person meant to say (on the assumption he is not an idiot) is that "Pensioners are more likely to pay income tax as a percentage of that group than those aged 16-64". A totally different thing. That is just saying that people paying at least £1 in income tax are more likely as they get older.
There are a whole host of reasons for that. People in receipt of pensions tend to get them as and when they choose. Unlike a 16 year old, nearly all of which are studying. The unemployed. The sick. The Housewife. The person who chooses to be economically inactive (of which there are millions).
It also neglects to mention that far more people aged over 65 are still working.
"'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception."
Technically, may well be true. Because when you add in the Pensioners still working, those in receipt of 2nd Pensions (including the S2P), may well be more than 50%. Although, of course, a considerable majority of those people (like you) will be paying very low amounts of tax.
So why all these column inches from Companies in the papers? They couldn't be Companies who want to charge big fat fees to Pensioners to help them with their tax problems, could they?
I get that you believe that Pensioners should be treated differently from everyone else. It is natural for every age group to believe that the tax burden should fall in other age groups rather than theirs.
It is certainly an argument that tax freezes cause people to start paying tax when they previously did not. But that is not "pensioners"-that is everyone whose pay or benefits rises over the threshold. It is just as true for someone earning £100,000 a year as someone earning £15,000-a small part of their income is taxed whereas it previously was not.
Is that "fair"? Taken in isolation, no. The trouble is if you do not increase tax via their back door there, you have to tax other people more.
There are always idealists out there who believe the answer is taxing the super-rich, or windfall taxes on certain companies. The trouble is that those people and companies employ professionals to ensure they legally avoid those taxes. So it never raises the money that is planned. That game has been going on for thousands of years. With little or no success.
Pensioners need to pay their fair share. Just like everyone else. Except, of course, the people who are most able to pay. They never will. Not saying that is fair. It is just the real world we live in.
I just posted an article that contradicts some of the claims that have been previously made on this thread.. I dont believe that pensioners should have preferential treatment. Although that would be pretty difficult to argue, when you consider the more recent actions of the Tory government. The reduction in NI contributions, do not affect pensioners. The freezing of the tax threshold, affects pensioners, and low earners the most. I am pepared to argue for fairness for anyone.
Some of the bits that surprised me in the above article were as follows,
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
Those are 2 important statements. And 1 is completely wrong. While the other is extremely misleading.
"Pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16-64". Nonsense. Rubbish. Piffle.
If an "expert" is really telling you that the 12 million people in receipt of the State Pension are paying more income tax than the 42 million people aged 16-64 (the outdated "working age" years, then they are not an "expert". They are a moron.
What that person meant to say (on the assumption he is not an idiot) is that "Pensioners are more likely to pay income tax as a percentage of that group than those aged 16-64". A totally different thing. That is just saying that people paying at least £1 in income tax are more likely as they get older.
There are a whole host of reasons for that. People in receipt of pensions tend to get them as and when they choose. Unlike a 16 year old, nearly all of which are studying. The unemployed. The sick. The Housewife. The person who chooses to be economically inactive (of which there are millions).
It also neglects to mention that far more people aged over 65 are still working.
"'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception."
Technically, may well be true. Because when you add in the Pensioners still working, those in receipt of 2nd Pensions (including the S2P), may well be more than 50%. Although, of course, a considerable majority of those people (like you) will be paying very low amounts of tax.
So why all these column inches from Companies in the papers? They couldn't be Companies who want to charge big fat fees to Pensioners to help them with their tax problems, could they?
Of course they are.
I am technically still working, and pay around 4.5k in income tax.
Comments
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nearly-two-thirds-pensioners-pay-213000155.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-warning-of-pension-black-hole-after-rishi-sunak-fails-to-rule-out-raising-retirement-age-to-75/ar-AA1nZxyd?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=5e0436e0718b48bc874bfba861887f7c&ei=40
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-will-betray-pensioners-if-they-get-into-power-starmer-has-no-plan-whatsoever-writes-selaine-saxby/ar-AA1o6fen?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=8e8270dd7b654be4e5ea8fe3ba9f92e5&ei=23
She can choose to be a journalist. She can choose to be the Conservative MP for North Devon.
What she should not be allowed to do is to write "opinion" pieces pretending to be journalism that are actually Conservative propaganda.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/huge-majority-backs-15-000-tax-threshold-for-pensioners/ar-AA1o8Q7U?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=5a9751a5ee3f4191997328dd4cdc91f9&ei=51
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/work-until-you-re-71-what-s-the-alternative/ar-BB1i3SzX?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=8c8aaccecea04f69f97f6949984a8800&ei=90
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/dwp-state-pension-could-rise-29410323
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/martin-lewis-explains-how-couple-made-80-000-by-spending-just-8-500/ar-BB1o2z29?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=752b1c5ddee3402c86332a8e22c9c6b4&ei=114#fullscreen
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/a-pension-fund-for-50-000-people-in-wales-grew-by-almost-8m-a-week-last-year/ar-BB1ppkHZ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=6ebbb8fd6f7e4b64a9558e235c4a6268&ei=71#fullscreen
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/a-single-text-cost-me-my-45-000-pension/ar-BB1pvyMd?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=ec60fc3bf6ce4e6ebbac1169c5f0d717&ei=81#fullscreen
More pensioners than ever are now paying tax on their income, according to latest figures from HMRC.
The number of people over state pension age paying income tax rose from 7.85million in 2023/24 to 8.51million in 2024/25 - an increase of 660,000.
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
Research by the Institute of Fiscal Studies shows that 65 per cent of those aged 65 and over are paying income tax, up from 48 per cent in 2010/11.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
Steve Webb, partner at LCP and This Is Money's pension columnist said: 'These new figures from HMRC are very timely and help to inform the debate about pensioners and tax.
'They show that a combination of frozen tax thresholds and significant increases in the state pension means the number of pensioners paying tax has continued to soar.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/half-a-million-more-pensioners-are-paying-income-tax-latest-hmrc-figures-show/ar-BB1oZe5d?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=e643c1f1090942ffab5803921064895c&ei=19#
It is certainly an argument that tax freezes cause people to start paying tax when they previously did not. But that is not "pensioners"-that is everyone whose pay or benefits rises over the threshold. It is just as true for someone earning £100,000 a year as someone earning £15,000-a small part of their income is taxed whereas it previously was not.
Is that "fair"? Taken in isolation, no. The trouble is if you do not increase tax via their back door there, you have to tax other people more.
There are always idealists out there who believe the answer is taxing the super-rich, or windfall taxes on certain companies. The trouble is that those people and companies employ professionals to ensure they legally avoid those taxes. So it never raises the money that is planned. That game has been going on for thousands of years. With little or no success.
Pensioners need to pay their fair share. Just like everyone else. Except, of course, the people who are most able to pay. They never will. Not saying that is fair. It is just the real world we live in.
I dont believe that pensioners should have preferential treatment.
Although that would be pretty difficult to argue, when you consider the more recent actions of the Tory government.
The reduction in NI contributions, do not affect pensioners.
The freezing of the tax threshold, affects pensioners, and low earners the most.
I am pepared to argue for fairness for anyone.
Some of the bits that surprised me in the above article were as follows,
It means there are now nearly 9million of those aged 65 or over paying tax on their income, compared with 4.9 million in 2010/11.
The huge rise in pensioners paying tax is largely a result of frozen income tax threshold, with the £12,570 personal allowance frozen since 2021.
For the first time, pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16 to 64.
'But this is a continuation of a long-term trend which has seen the number of over 65s paying tax rise by around 4 million since 2010/11.
'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception.'
Recent research by LCP found that around 2.5million pensioners currently have state pensions above the income tax threshold.
"Pensioners are likely to pay more income tax than collectively those aged 16-64". Nonsense. Rubbish. Piffle.
If an "expert" is really telling you that the 12 million people in receipt of the State Pension are paying more income tax than the 42 million people aged 16-64 (the outdated "working age" years, then they are not an "expert". They are a moron.
What that person meant to say (on the assumption he is not an idiot) is that "Pensioners are more likely to pay income tax as a percentage of that group than those aged 16-64". A totally different thing. That is just saying that people paying at least £1 in income tax are more likely as they get older.
There are a whole host of reasons for that. People in receipt of pensions tend to get them as and when they choose. Unlike a 16 year old, nearly all of which are studying. The unemployed. The sick. The Housewife. The person who chooses to be economically inactive (of which there are millions).
It also neglects to mention that far more people aged over 65 are still working.
"'For a pensioner in Britain, being an income taxpayer is now the norm rather than the exception."
Technically, may well be true. Because when you add in the Pensioners still working, those in receipt of 2nd Pensions (including the S2P), may well be more than 50%. Although, of course, a considerable majority of those people (like you) will be paying very low amounts of tax.
So why all these column inches from Companies in the papers? They couldn't be Companies who want to charge big fat fees to Pensioners to help them with their tax problems, could they?
Of course they are.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/loopy-liz-truss-suggested-increasing-pension-age-to-80/ar-BB1pVl1K?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=4d654ee3547f4726829ae66f9aaabaad&ei=116#fullscreen