Last nights main. 189 runners. 39 re-entries. So just about 20% re-entered. 80% didnt. The £1170 that the re-entries put into the prize pool made a massive difference. In fact the difference between £330 worth of overlay, and smashing the guarantee. These re-entries cost £30. They may be more popular at £5 or £10.
Last nights main. 189 runners. 39 re-entries. So just about 20% re-entered. 80% didnt. The £1170 that the re-entries put into the prize pool made a massive difference. In fact the difference between £330 worth of overlay, and smashing the guarantee. These re-entries cost £30. They may be more popular at £5 or £10.
Last nights mini. Still an overlay. Still £18 min cash. Still had to finish 9th to double your buy in.
On the plus side there were 8 more runners than the previous week. This reduced the overlay by £80. So I guess those disappointed by the min cash, are not voting with their feet.
........and also that some of the money should be trimmed off 1st and 2nd
I think that the minimum prize in a Freezeout should always be at least double the Entry Fee
I just had a look through the UKOPS schedule. In particular the minis. Excluding the rebuy minis. All the others except for Monday, allow unlimited re-entries. All the others have guarantees that are at least double the Monday mini. I rest my case. Before you say anything, bankrolls dont expand, buy ins dont suddenly become more affordable, neither do re-entries, just because there is a UKOPS on.
I'm late to the thread here, but I agree somewhere between 14% and 17% of the field should paid. Min cash should be double the entry fee and the prizes are too top heavy at Sky. With that said, I realise it's the top prize that draws in the recs.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
ALL the Mini's in UKOPS are Bounty Hunters i believe
The Monday one that I referred to above is a freezeout, no re-entries, and the lowest guarantee by far, of all the minis. It looks like the Wednesday rebuy, may also be a freezeout.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
It is very difficult to categorise players. This sometimes does them a disservice. Some players are happy to make money playing small stakes tourneys. It still takes a few quid to multi-table at small stakes, all day every day. It would be foolish to think that all good cash players compete at eye watering blind levels.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Assuming those figures are correct. I think it is probably more difficult to distribute a small prize pool than a big one. I suppose it would be difficult to pay anyone that cashed less than £4.
My point about the minis is that you could address your complaints by allowing re-entries. If the mains are anything to go by, you could expect 30 re-entries on a Sunday, and as many as 80 on a Saturday. This would increase the prize pools by £300, and £400 respectively. This would allow for a min cash of at least double the buy in, without reducing the number of places that were paid. There is no need for anything drastic.
It will be interesting to see how the UKOPS minis with unlimited re-entries go.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
I was surprised by last nights mini. There were 243 runners. £1250 guarantee. £35 overlay. 26 places paid. Min cash £5.59. So 9p profit for a min cash. To say that may be a little unfair, as it is a BH, so the vast majority of min cashers will have supplemented this figure with head prizes. I dont see that you could pay less places as around 10% got paid. If it was a freezeout, you could double the prizemoney for each place, but BHs seem far more popular than freezeouts.
If ever there was a tourney that needed to allow re-entries, it is the mini. It should just be a matter of how many. Unlimited, or just one.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
The other thing you could question is the difference between the Saturday and Sunday minis. The Sunday guarantee is 25% less than Saturday. The Saturday mini costs a fiver, and is a BH. Sunday is a freezeout, and costs a tenner. Sunday only attracts 40% of the number of runners that play on Saturday. Is the reason for this that it is a freezeout, or because of the buy in? It has to be one or the other, or a combination of both, doesnt it? Unless of course less people play on a Sunday?
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
The other thing you could question is the difference between the Saturday and Sunday minis. The Sunday guarantee is 25% less than Saturday. The Saturday mini costs a fiver, and is a BH. Sunday is a freezeout, and costs a tenner. Sunday only attracts 40% of the number of runners that play on Saturday. Is the reason for this that it is a freezeout, or because of the buy in? It has to be one or the other, or a combination of both, doesnt it? Unless of course less people play on a Sunday?
Whole host of reasons for this. Certainly true that both fact that is a freezeout and that it has a higher buy-in are factors-generally £5.50 seems the most popular buy-in, and Bounty Hunters have always been more popular.
Another important factor is the speed of the Levels. A 7 minute blind level (for both the Main and Mini) is a lot more popular. It could be because the quicker Mains/Minis only happen twice a week. But most other sites do tend to have 7 or 8 minute levels at this buy-in.
It is 1 thing having low prizes until the Final Table for a Mini. Quite another to stay up late and play for hours for little reward due to the slow structure..
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
The other thing you could question is the difference between the Saturday and Sunday minis. The Sunday guarantee is 25% less than Saturday. The Saturday mini costs a fiver, and is a BH. Sunday is a freezeout, and costs a tenner. Sunday only attracts 40% of the number of runners that play on Saturday. Is the reason for this that it is a freezeout, or because of the buy in? It has to be one or the other, or a combination of both, doesnt it? Unless of course less people play on a Sunday?
You could also throw a Friday into the mix. The most runners of the week. The biggest prize pool of the week. Double the next nearest which is Saturday. Paid out a grand to the top two. £5.50 entry £4,000 Mini Avenger Rebuy B/Hunter (£4,205) 392 entries 281 rebuys 168 addons You cant determine how many players rebought, because some will have made multiple rebuys. You are only allowed one add on, so the likelihood is that 168 players spent at least £15 each, but definitely a tenner. So that surely overcomes the everybody is skint argument. Maybe its just that players are prepared to spend a bit of money on a tourney with a nice prize pool.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
The other thing you could question is the difference between the Saturday and Sunday minis. The Sunday guarantee is 25% less than Saturday. The Saturday mini costs a fiver, and is a BH. Sunday is a freezeout, and costs a tenner. Sunday only attracts 40% of the number of runners that play on Saturday. Is the reason for this that it is a freezeout, or because of the buy in? It has to be one or the other, or a combination of both, doesnt it? Unless of course less people play on a Sunday?
You could also throw a Friday into the mix. The most runners of the week. The biggest prize pool of the week. Double the next nearest which is Saturday. Paid out a grand to the top two. £5.50 entry £4,000 Mini Avenger Rebuy B/Hunter (£4,205) 392 entries 281 rebuys 168 addons You cant determine how many players rebought, because some will have made multiple rebuys. You are only allowed one add on, so the likelihood is that 168 players spent at least £15 each, but definitely a tenner. So that surely overcomes the everybody is skint argument. Maybe its just that players are prepared to spend a bit of money on a tourney with a nice prize pool.
That's a valid last point Tony, Imagine if that was a non BH. £4K prize pool for just a £10e entry with a £5add on. It should have them queueing down the street to play it. However, it only works because it is a BH.
If Sky offered a £4k, 7 minute level freezeout for £15 would it cover the prize pool. That would require 267 players and I feel that not that many would happily shell out 15 pound although you may have data that proves otherwise.
I may have got your original point wrong. I thought that you were advocating unlimited rebuys for the mini main. However, if it was that you were suggesting a single rebuy then that may have merit in this situation.
! final point, nobody is going to admit they are skint on a poker forum. That's a sure way to get your account frozen by the nanny state lawmakers who try to legislate against stupidity in the name of our own well being.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
The other thing you could question is the difference between the Saturday and Sunday minis. The Sunday guarantee is 25% less than Saturday. The Saturday mini costs a fiver, and is a BH. Sunday is a freezeout, and costs a tenner. Sunday only attracts 40% of the number of runners that play on Saturday. Is the reason for this that it is a freezeout, or because of the buy in? It has to be one or the other, or a combination of both, doesnt it? Unless of course less people play on a Sunday?
You could also throw a Friday into the mix. The most runners of the week. The biggest prize pool of the week. Double the next nearest which is Saturday. Paid out a grand to the top two. £5.50 entry £4,000 Mini Avenger Rebuy B/Hunter (£4,205) 392 entries 281 rebuys 168 addons You cant determine how many players rebought, because some will have made multiple rebuys. You are only allowed one add on, so the likelihood is that 168 players spent at least £15 each, but definitely a tenner. So that surely overcomes the everybody is skint argument. Maybe its just that players are prepared to spend a bit of money on a tourney with a nice prize pool.
That's a valid last point Tony, Imagine if that was a non BH. £4K prize pool for just a £10e entry with a £5add on. It should have them queueing down the street to play it. However, it only works because it is a BH.
If Sky offered a £4k, 7 minute level freezeout for £15 would it cover the prize pool. That would require 267 players and I feel that not that many would happily shell out 15 pound although you may have data that proves otherwise.
I may have got your original point wrong. I thought that you were advocating unlimited rebuys for the mini main. However, if it was that you were suggesting a single rebuy then that may have merit in this situation.
! final point, nobody is going to admit they are skint on a poker forum. That's a sure way to get your account frozen by the nanny state lawmakers who try to legislate against stupidity in the name of our own well being.
I think that the vast majority of players play within the limits of what they can afford. I was merely illustrating that the biggest mini of the week is the most expensive of the week to play. I just think that Sky are unlikely to cover the overlay forever, which means a reduction in the guarantees, and they need a rethink. Allowing a single re-entry on all the mains has changed them for the better. Last night the re-entries turned a £620 overlay, into beating the guarantee by £400.
Comments
£5.50 entry £2,000 Mini Sharpshooter (£2,000)
367 entries, £165 overlay
Rake £183.50 minus £165 is a massive £18.50.
Still an overlay.
Still £18 min cash.
Still had to finish 9th to double your buy in.
This reduced the overlay by £80.
So I guess those disappointed by the min cash, are not voting with their feet.
In particular the minis.
Excluding the rebuy minis.
All the others except for Monday, allow unlimited re-entries.
All the others have guarantees that are at least double the Monday mini.
I rest my case.
Before you say anything, bankrolls dont expand, buy ins dont suddenly become more affordable, neither do re-entries, just because there is a UKOPS on.
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid.
Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
It looks like the Wednesday rebuy, may also be a freezeout.
This sometimes does them a disservice.
Some players are happy to make money playing small stakes tourneys.
It still takes a few quid to multi-table at small stakes, all day every day.
It would be foolish to think that all good cash players compete at eye watering blind levels.
I think it is probably more difficult to distribute a small prize pool than a big one.
I suppose it would be difficult to pay anyone that cashed less than £4.
My point about the minis is that you could address your complaints by allowing re-entries.
If the mains are anything to go by, you could expect 30 re-entries on a Sunday, and as many as 80 on a Saturday.
This would increase the prize pools by £300, and £400 respectively.
This would allow for a min cash of at least double the buy in, without reducing the number of places that were paid.
There is no need for anything drastic.
It will be interesting to see how the UKOPS minis with unlimited re-entries go.
There were 243 runners.
£1250 guarantee.
£35 overlay.
26 places paid.
Min cash £5.59.
So 9p profit for a min cash.
To say that may be a little unfair, as it is a BH, so the vast majority of min cashers will have supplemented this figure with head prizes.
I dont see that you could pay less places as around 10% got paid.
If it was a freezeout, you could double the prizemoney for each place, but BHs seem far more popular than freezeouts.
If ever there was a tourney that needed to allow re-entries, it is the mini.
It should just be a matter of how many.
Unlimited, or just one.
The Sunday guarantee is 25% less than Saturday.
The Saturday mini costs a fiver, and is a BH.
Sunday is a freezeout, and costs a tenner.
Sunday only attracts 40% of the number of runners that play on Saturday.
Is the reason for this that it is a freezeout, or because of the buy in?
It has to be one or the other, or a combination of both, doesnt it?
Unless of course less people play on a Sunday?
Another important factor is the speed of the Levels. A 7 minute blind level (for both the Main and Mini) is a lot more popular. It could be because the quicker Mains/Minis only happen twice a week. But most other sites do tend to have 7 or 8 minute levels at this buy-in.
It is 1 thing having low prizes until the Final Table for a Mini. Quite another to stay up late and play for hours for little reward due to the slow structure..
The most runners of the week.
The biggest prize pool of the week.
Double the next nearest which is Saturday.
Paid out a grand to the top two.
£5.50 entry £4,000 Mini Avenger Rebuy B/Hunter (£4,205)
392 entries 281 rebuys 168 addons
You cant determine how many players rebought, because some will have made multiple rebuys.
You are only allowed one add on, so the likelihood is that 168 players spent at least £15 each, but definitely a tenner.
So that surely overcomes the everybody is skint argument.
Maybe its just that players are prepared to spend a bit of money on a tourney with a nice prize pool.
Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry?
Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
If Sky offered a £4k, 7 minute level freezeout for £15 would it cover the prize pool. That would require 267 players and I feel that not that many would happily shell out 15 pound although you may have data that proves otherwise.
I may have got your original point wrong. I thought that you were advocating unlimited rebuys for the mini main. However, if it was that you were suggesting a single rebuy then that may have merit in this situation.
! final point, nobody is going to admit they are skint on a poker forum. That's a sure way to get your account frozen by the nanny state lawmakers who try to legislate against stupidity in the name of our own well being.
I was merely illustrating that the biggest mini of the week is the most expensive of the week to play.
I just think that Sky are unlikely to cover the overlay forever, which means a reduction in the guarantees, and they need a rethink.
Allowing a single re-entry on all the mains has changed them for the better.
Last night the re-entries turned a £620 overlay, into beating the guarantee by £400.