I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
Sunday is the only mini that is a freezeout. If you wanted to offer the same variety, then the Sunday rebuy could be a freezeout. The players that can afford a tenner on a Sunday, could probably afford a tenner on a Saturday. Those that cant afford a re-entry in the week, wouldnt have to.
I will admit that I know very little about recreational players, and their likes/dislikes. I am not sure anyone does. How could they? Where could you find any stats? My opinion is that if you were a player that didnt like playing BHs, you would have started playing elsewhere long ago.
What I can say for sure is this. Sunday gets 40% of Saturday entries, less when compared to Friday. So what happens to all the recs that play on Friday, and Saturday, when it comes to Sunday. Are you are arguing that all the recs that play on Sky, continue playing on Sky because the Sunday mini is a freezeout?
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
Sunday is the only mini that is a freezeout. If you wanted to offer the same variety, then the Sunday rebuy could be a freezeout. The players that can afford a tenner on a Sunday, could probably afford a tenner on a Saturday. Those that cant afford a re-entry in the week, wouldnt have to.
I will admit that I know very little about recreational players, and their likes/dislikes. I am not sure anyone does. How could they? Where could you find any stats? My opinion is that if you were a player that didnt like playing BHs, you would have started playing elsewhere long ago.
What I can say for sure is this. Sunday gets 40% of Saturday entries, less when compared to Friday. So what happens to all the recs that play on Friday, and Saturday, when it comes to Sunday. Are you are arguing that all the recs that play on Sky, continue playing on Sky because the Sunday mini is a freezeout?
Of course I am not.
I am saying that if you remove the few freezeouts that are left, that a portion of the player pool would leave. Not all of them. Some of them.
When you say that you don't think anyone understands what recreational players like, you are incorrect. The people that run Sky do. That's why they run the site. And we do not.
Re-entries make tournaments longer. And the average rating of someone re-entering will be higher than those that do not. Which at higher levels is one thing. And at lower levels, another.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
Sunday is the only mini that is a freezeout. If you wanted to offer the same variety, then the Sunday rebuy could be a freezeout. The players that can afford a tenner on a Sunday, could probably afford a tenner on a Saturday. Those that cant afford a re-entry in the week, wouldnt have to.
I will admit that I know very little about recreational players, and their likes/dislikes. I am not sure anyone does. How could they? Where could you find any stats? My opinion is that if you were a player that didnt like playing BHs, you would have started playing elsewhere long ago.
What I can say for sure is this. Sunday gets 40% of Saturday entries, less when compared to Friday. So what happens to all the recs that play on Friday, and Saturday, when it comes to Sunday. Are you are arguing that all the recs that play on Sky, continue playing on Sky because the Sunday mini is a freezeout?
Of course I am not.
I am saying that if you remove the few freezeouts that are left, that a portion of the player pool would leave. Not all of them. Some of them.
When you say that you don't think anyone understands what recreational players like, you are incorrect. The people that run Sky do. That's why they run the site. And we do not.
Re-entries make tournaments longer. And the average rating of someone re-entering will be higher than those that do not. Which at higher levels is one thing. And at lower levels, another.
As I previously explained, I am not advocating reducing the number of freezeouts. If there was a Sunday rebuy, it could be a freezeout. You are the person that maintains that you are aware of what effect a particular change will have. You were dead against the introduction of re-entries in the mains. I dont understand the point you are trying to make in the highlighted bit. I think that you can overthink this. Some people just enter a tourney, and play. They dont think that they have a lesser chance of winning, because the better players can re-enter. The newbys have a lesser chance anyway, and are probably aware of this. Who are the extra players that play on a Friday? They play even though it is more expensive. Saturday probably sees an increase because more players play on the weekend. Tournaments only run for longer if you reach the later stages, which most players see as a boost, rather than a drag.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
Sunday is the only mini that is a freezeout. If you wanted to offer the same variety, then the Sunday rebuy could be a freezeout. The players that can afford a tenner on a Sunday, could probably afford a tenner on a Saturday. Those that cant afford a re-entry in the week, wouldnt have to.
I will admit that I know very little about recreational players, and their likes/dislikes. I am not sure anyone does. How could they? Where could you find any stats? My opinion is that if you were a player that didnt like playing BHs, you would have started playing elsewhere long ago.
What I can say for sure is this. Sunday gets 40% of Saturday entries, less when compared to Friday. So what happens to all the recs that play on Friday, and Saturday, when it comes to Sunday. Are you are arguing that all the recs that play on Sky, continue playing on Sky because the Sunday mini is a freezeout?
Of course I am not.
I am saying that if you remove the few freezeouts that are left, that a portion of the player pool would leave. Not all of them. Some of them.
When you say that you don't think anyone understands what recreational players like, you are incorrect. The people that run Sky do. That's why they run the site. And we do not.
Re-entries make tournaments longer. And the average rating of someone re-entering will be higher than those that do not. Which at higher levels is one thing. And at lower levels, another.
You could probably have a debate around which tourneys should be BHs, and which shouldnt. I dont think there is an argument when it comes to the higher stakes, as a head prize is substantial. I also understand that when it comes to smaller stakes, the head prizes are commensurate with the buy in. I understand the argument that a BH spreads the prize pool further, so you can offset some of your buy in without even getting near the money. The way the BH minis are running, there is barely a profit on your buy in when it comes to a min cash. Is this therefore penalising the players that do better, in favour of someone who finishes 150th, but takes a £1.88 head prize. The alternative would be to change them to freezeouts. This would allow you to double the prize money for all places. Making the top finishers miles better off. A min cash would be at least double the buy in. All the above assumes paying the same number of places. The only down side would seem to be that nobody that finished outside the top 25 or so would get any money. Allowing re-entries would give them a further boost.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Last nights mini. £11 buy in. 423 runners, 234 re-entries. BH, 52 places paid, min cash £16.43.
Out of the 52 that cashed only 3 got no heads. They got, £18.07, £20.70, and £29.57, respectively. The winner got £945.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Last nights mini. £11 buy in. 423 runners, 234 re-entries. BH, 52 places paid, min cash £16.43.
Out of the 52 that cashed only 3 got no heads. They got, £18.07, £20.70, and £29.57, respectively. The winner got £945.
Would anyone really wish to stop the re-entries, and reduce the prize pool by £2,340?
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
Sunday is the only mini that is a freezeout. If you wanted to offer the same variety, then the Sunday rebuy could be a freezeout. The players that can afford a tenner on a Sunday, could probably afford a tenner on a Saturday. Those that cant afford a re-entry in the week, wouldnt have to.
I will admit that I know very little about recreational players, and their likes/dislikes. I am not sure anyone does. How could they? Where could you find any stats? My opinion is that if you were a player that didnt like playing BHs, you would have started playing elsewhere long ago.
What I can say for sure is this. Sunday gets 40% of Saturday entries, less when compared to Friday. So what happens to all the recs that play on Friday, and Saturday, when it comes to Sunday. Are you are arguing that all the recs that play on Sky, continue playing on Sky because the Sunday mini is a freezeout?
Of course I am not.
I am saying that if you remove the few freezeouts that are left, that a portion of the player pool would leave. Not all of them. Some of them.
When you say that you don't think anyone understands what recreational players like, you are incorrect. The people that run Sky do. That's why they run the site. And we do not.
Re-entries make tournaments longer. And the average rating of someone re-entering will be higher than those that do not. Which at higher levels is one thing. And at lower levels, another.
Was last nights £20 rebuy proof that it is possible to attract a decent number of runners for a freezeout?
£5K guaranteed, £7,760 prize pool. 165 runners. 30 places paid. Min cash £70.62. The winner got over £2k.
I suppose you could argue that if you spent £60, on your entry, a rebuy, and an add on, 1/6 odds on getting paid, are not good. Although the paying of less places option would seem worse.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things. And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Last nights mini.
£11 entry UKOPS 10 £5,000 Mini Rebuy B/Hunter (£7,030)
304 entries 247 rebuys 152 addons
£1,260 seems a lot of cash for winning a Sky Poker Mini but that's what @jordz16 took home
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Last nights mini.
£11 entry UKOPS 10 £5,000 Mini Rebuy B/Hunter (£7,030)
304 entries 247 rebuys 152 addons
£1,260 seems a lot of cash for winning a Sky Poker Mini but that's what @jordz16 took home
SO exactly 50% of the players probably spent £30. but definitely £20.
I was looking at a couple of Tournaments last night
......the £200 DEEP STACK (£2.20 Entry Fee) was one of them
I might have got it mixed up but pretty sure it paid 13 places (117-ish entries) so 1 in 9 paid. Min cash was double entry fee and 1st place paid about £65-ish so x30 Buy-in
Seemed OK for a Rec. Tourney
Could you have another rebuy on a Sunday? Make Saturday a tenner with one re-entry? Allow unlimited re-entries in the week?
Sky could do all these things.
And various of the Recreational players, who are the lifeblood of this (and every) site would leave. Without them, I don't make money. And you do not make money.
And the few genuine single entry/ freezeouts would reduce still further.
Because running a poker site is not just about maximising player pools. It is also about offering sufficient variety to keep people playing on the site.
The UKOPS runs for ten days. The cheapest buy in is £11. One per day. These are the minis. All the rest are at least double. Only two minis are freezeouts. Only one of these does not allow re-entries. All the rest are unlimited re-entries, or rebuys. The number of re-entries so far has been surprisingly high. The number of freezeouts hasnt really changed as far as the mini is concerned, as there is usually one per week.
There are 3/4 UKOPS every year, and despite the above, the site doesnt seem to get abandoned by a load of players. This is despite the fact that they dont seem to cater for the groups of players that you describe as the lifeblood of the site, those that play £5 tourneys, and freezeout fans.
I am certain the minis would improve by implementing one or more of the following, Upping the buy in to a tenner, £15 on a Sunday, and one re-entry. Or maintain the current buy ins with unlimited re-entries.
Comments
If you wanted to offer the same variety, then the Sunday rebuy could be a freezeout.
The players that can afford a tenner on a Sunday, could probably afford a tenner on a Saturday.
Those that cant afford a re-entry in the week, wouldnt have to.
I will admit that I know very little about recreational players, and their likes/dislikes.
I am not sure anyone does.
How could they?
Where could you find any stats?
My opinion is that if you were a player that didnt like playing BHs, you would have started playing elsewhere long ago.
What I can say for sure is this.
Sunday gets 40% of Saturday entries, less when compared to Friday.
So what happens to all the recs that play on Friday, and Saturday, when it comes to Sunday.
Are you are arguing that all the recs that play on Sky, continue playing on Sky because the Sunday mini is a freezeout?
I am saying that if you remove the few freezeouts that are left, that a portion of the player pool would leave. Not all of them. Some of them.
When you say that you don't think anyone understands what recreational players like, you are incorrect. The people that run Sky do. That's why they run the site. And we do not.
Re-entries make tournaments longer. And the average rating of someone re-entering will be higher than those that do not. Which at higher levels is one thing. And at lower levels, another.
If there was a Sunday rebuy, it could be a freezeout.
You are the person that maintains that you are aware of what effect a particular change will have.
You were dead against the introduction of re-entries in the mains.
I dont understand the point you are trying to make in the highlighted bit.
I think that you can overthink this.
Some people just enter a tourney, and play.
They dont think that they have a lesser chance of winning, because the better players can re-enter.
The newbys have a lesser chance anyway, and are probably aware of this.
Who are the extra players that play on a Friday?
They play even though it is more expensive.
Saturday probably sees an increase because more players play on the weekend.
Tournaments only run for longer if you reach the later stages, which most players see as a boost, rather than a drag.
I dont think there is an argument when it comes to the higher stakes, as a head prize is substantial.
I also understand that when it comes to smaller stakes, the head prizes are commensurate with the buy in.
I understand the argument that a BH spreads the prize pool further, so you can offset some of your buy in without even getting near the money.
The way the BH minis are running, there is barely a profit on your buy in when it comes to a min cash.
Is this therefore penalising the players that do better, in favour of someone who finishes 150th, but takes a £1.88 head prize.
The alternative would be to change them to freezeouts.
This would allow you to double the prize money for all places.
Making the top finishers miles better off.
A min cash would be at least double the buy in.
All the above assumes paying the same number of places.
The only down side would seem to be that nobody that finished outside the top 25 or so would get any money.
Allowing re-entries would give them a further boost.
£11 buy in.
423 runners, 234 re-entries.
BH, 52 places paid, min cash £16.43.
Out of the 52 that cashed only 3 got no heads.
They got, £18.07, £20.70, and £29.57, respectively.
The winner got £945.
£5K guaranteed, £7,760 prize pool.
165 runners.
30 places paid.
Min cash £70.62.
The winner got over £2k.
I suppose you could argue that if you spent £60, on your entry, a rebuy, and an add on, 1/6 odds on getting paid, are not good.
Although the paying of less places option would seem worse.
£11 entry UKOPS 10 £5,000 Mini Rebuy B/Hunter (£7,030)
304 entries 247 rebuys 152 addons
£1,260 seems a lot of cash for winning a Sky Poker Mini but that's what @jordz16 took home
The cheapest buy in is £11.
One per day.
These are the minis.
All the rest are at least double.
Only two minis are freezeouts.
Only one of these does not allow re-entries.
All the rest are unlimited re-entries, or rebuys.
The number of re-entries so far has been surprisingly high.
The number of freezeouts hasnt really changed as far as the mini is concerned, as there is usually one per week.
There are 3/4 UKOPS every year, and despite the above, the site doesnt seem to get abandoned by a load of players.
This is despite the fact that they dont seem to cater for the groups of players that you describe as the lifeblood of the site, those that play £5 tourneys, and freezeout fans.
I am certain the minis would improve by implementing one or more of the following,
Upping the buy in to a tenner, £15 on a Sunday, and one re-entry.
Or maintain the current buy ins with unlimited re-entries.
Loads of heads between the top finishers.
Loads of re-entries.
£11 entry UKOPS 17 £5,000 Mini Bounty Hunter (£5,650)
338 entries 227 rebuys.
@luckme002 1695000 1 £734.50 + £195.73 Head Prizes 12
@destinycod 0 2 £423.75 + £145.25 Head Prizes 15
@freddy6618 0 3 £257.07 + £96.51 Head Prizes 15
@DustoLucko 0 4 £206.22 + £58.68 Head Prizes 7
@cabbaz 0 5 £175.15 + £32.33 Head Prizes 4
@chrisdonkb 0 6 £144.07 + £3.75 Head Prizes 1