Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play.
Even if it is, surely we want opponents stacking off behind / light. Or is that only when they don't hit.
Anyone who calls a re raise with 22 is a fool! What do expect the other guy to have that puts you ahead to justify calling?
These 'experts' that can put the raiser on AQ OR a pocket pair baffle me, HTF can anyone possibly know what the re raiser has and 22 should get binned. (Basically they are praying the other guy has AK so they are 50/50, then they get counterfeited when JJQQ3 land!)
You can raise with ANYTHING, but numpies call re raises with low pocket pairs, because AT BEST you have a 50/50 chance of winning + and most re raising will probably be a mile in front.
When you raise you are asking a question, and if you get re raised you have a dilemma and choice.
In a 28p S&G it is irrelevant, but in the later stages of a qualifying tournament it is plain daft to call a re raise with a low pocket pair or King high etc.
This is not correct. What you say will be the correct play a lot of the time. But not all of the time. Simply because of what @TheEdge949 says:-
"Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play."
If the blinds are 600/1200 and the SB shoves for a total of 1201 chips, is it a fold? Of course not. And when to call with 22 depends not only on the Raiser, but also the caller. If the BB has 1201 chips, it is always a call. Similarly, having 2400 chips in my example will usually be a call. Again, if the caller has 60,000 chips he can happily call a 6,000 shove in my example. Simply because he is gambling chips that have little value for him. Which is why one of the best players on this site called Jez with something like 9 3.
In an MTT, implied odds can often mean that calling with 22 to a raiser is correct. In addition, floating is hugely profitable against certain players. For example, on a recent thread, a player in the last 3 of the Sunday Major called a reraise with K2, then called a sizeable bet on the flop with just a gutshot. Not something I would (or could) ever do-but he is one of the best players on this site. I suggest you look at that hand. And think who wins that hand if Haysie had KK instead of AA-he gets floated off of it..
Chips have different values at different times in tournaments. All things being equal, what you say is usually correct. But on occasions it is not.
I hope you and others carry on calling re raises with 22 or 33.
I have no issues with actually raising with it or K2.
Players that regularly take chances will eventually come a cropper and they do not impress me. I would be more likely to re raise someone like you compared to players that i know are solid.
I comprehend your reasons and logic, however I want to go to war with the strongest army, and taking random risks when i have been re raised is not an option.
When i have £3 in a cash game, or playing for points in cheap S&Gs, i will chuck my chips in with random hands, but never if it involves serious money.
You clearly understand that there are occasions when it is better to retreat with the superior Army.
You equally clearly do not understand that there are occasions when it is better to stand and fight even though you have the weaker Army.
Even though they are the 2 sides of the exact same coin.
These are not "random" risks. They are calculated risks.
"Solid" players are losing poker players. Who play so tightly that people do not reraise them. For the exact reasons you mention.
Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play.
Even if it is, surely we want opponents stacking off behind / light. Or is that only when they don't hit.
Anyone who calls a re raise with 22 is a fool! What do expect the other guy to have that puts you ahead to justify calling?
These 'experts' that can put the raiser on AQ OR a pocket pair baffle me, HTF can anyone possibly know what the re raiser has and 22 should get binned. (Basically they are praying the other guy has AK so they are 50/50, then they get counterfeited when JJQQ3 land!)
You can raise with ANYTHING, but numpies call re raises with low pocket pairs, because AT BEST you have a 50/50 chance of winning + and most re raising will probably be a mile in front.
When you raise you are asking a question, and if you get re raised you have a dilemma and choice.
In a 28p S&G it is irrelevant, but in the later stages of a qualifying tournament it is plain daft to call a re raise with a low pocket pair or King high etc.
This is not correct. What you say will be the correct play a lot of the time. But not all of the time. Simply because of what @TheEdge949 says:-
"Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play."
If the blinds are 600/1200 and the SB shoves for a total of 1201 chips, is it a fold? Of course not. And when to call with 22 depends not only on the Raiser, but also the caller. If the BB has 1201 chips, it is always a call. Similarly, having 2400 chips in my example will usually be a call. Again, if the caller has 60,000 chips he can happily call a 6,000 shove in my example. Simply because he is gambling chips that have little value for him. Which is why one of the best players on this site called Jez with something like 9 3.
In an MTT, implied odds can often mean that calling with 22 to a raiser is correct. In addition, floating is hugely profitable against certain players. For example, on a recent thread, a player in the last 3 of the Sunday Major called a reraise with K2, then called a sizeable bet on the flop with just a gutshot. Not something I would (or could) ever do-but he is one of the best players on this site. I suggest you look at that hand. And think who wins that hand if Haysie had KK instead of AA-he gets floated off of it..
Chips have different values at different times in tournaments. All things being equal, what you say is usually correct. But on occasions it is not.
I hope you and others carry on calling re raises with 22 or 33.
I have no issues with actually raising with it or K2.
Players that regularly take chances will eventually come a cropper and they do not impress me. I would be more likely to re raise someone like you compared to players that i know are solid.
I comprehend your reasons and logic, however I want to go to war with the strongest army, and taking random risks when i have been re raised is not an option.
When i have £3 in a cash game, or playing for points in cheap S&Gs, i will chuck my chips in with random hands, but never if it involves serious money.
You clearly understand that there are occasions when it is better to retreat with the superior Army.
You equally clearly do not understand that there are occasions when it is better to stand and fight even though you have the weaker Army.
Even though they are the 2 sides of the exact same coin.
These are not "random" risks. They are calculated risks.
"Solid" players are losing poker players. Who play so tightly that people do not reraise them. For the exact reasons you mention.
I will re raise anyone if i think i am in front, but unfortunately even donks get good cards.
However i will not call re raises with **** and give another player more power.
You are welcome to try your tactics if i ever re raise you, because i will never try and bluff a person who is likely to call me with rubbish.
Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play.
Even if it is, surely we want opponents stacking off behind / light. Or is that only when they don't hit.
Anyone who calls a re raise with 22 is a fool! What do expect the other guy to have that puts you ahead to justify calling?
These 'experts' that can put the raiser on AQ OR a pocket pair baffle me, HTF can anyone possibly know what the re raiser has and 22 should get binned. (Basically they are praying the other guy has AK so they are 50/50, then they get counterfeited when JJQQ3 land!)
You can raise with ANYTHING, but numpies call re raises with low pocket pairs, because AT BEST you have a 50/50 chance of winning + and most re raising will probably be a mile in front.
When you raise you are asking a question, and if you get re raised you have a dilemma and choice.
In a 28p S&G it is irrelevant, but in the later stages of a qualifying tournament it is plain daft to call a re raise with a low pocket pair or King high etc.
This is not correct. What you say will be the correct play a lot of the time. But not all of the time. Simply because of what @TheEdge949 says:-
"Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play."
If the blinds are 600/1200 and the SB shoves for a total of 1201 chips, is it a fold? Of course not. And when to call with 22 depends not only on the Raiser, but also the caller. If the BB has 1201 chips, it is always a call. Similarly, having 2400 chips in my example will usually be a call. Again, if the caller has 60,000 chips he can happily call a 6,000 shove in my example. Simply because he is gambling chips that have little value for him. Which is why one of the best players on this site called Jez with something like 9 3.
In an MTT, implied odds can often mean that calling with 22 to a raiser is correct. In addition, floating is hugely profitable against certain players. For example, on a recent thread, a player in the last 3 of the Sunday Major called a reraise with K2, then called a sizeable bet on the flop with just a gutshot. Not something I would (or could) ever do-but he is one of the best players on this site. I suggest you look at that hand. And think who wins that hand if Haysie had KK instead of AA-he gets floated off of it..
Chips have different values at different times in tournaments. All things being equal, what you say is usually correct. But on occasions it is not.
I hope you and others carry on calling re raises with 22 or 33.
I have no issues with actually raising with it or K2.
Players that regularly take chances will eventually come a cropper and they do not impress me. I would be more likely to re raise someone like you compared to players that i know are solid.
I comprehend your reasons and logic, however I want to go to war with the strongest army, and taking random risks when i have been re raised is not an option.
When i have £3 in a cash game, or playing for points in cheap S&Gs, i will chuck my chips in with random hands, but never if it involves serious money.
You clearly understand that there are occasions when it is better to retreat with the superior Army.
You equally clearly do not understand that there are occasions when it is better to stand and fight even though you have the weaker Army.
Even though they are the 2 sides of the exact same coin.
These are not "random" risks. They are calculated risks.
"Solid" players are losing poker players. Who play so tightly that people do not reraise them. For the exact reasons you mention.
I will re raise anyone if i think i am in front, but unfortunately even donks get good cards.
However i will not call re raises with **** and give another player more power.
You are welcome to try your tactics if i ever re raise you, because i will never try and bluff a person who is likely to call me with rubbish.
If you ever bump into essexphil in a casino will you be punching him in the face?
Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play.
Even if it is, surely we want opponents stacking off behind / light. Or is that only when they don't hit.
Anyone who calls a re raise with 22 is a fool! What do expect the other guy to have that puts you ahead to justify calling?
These 'experts' that can put the raiser on AQ OR a pocket pair baffle me, HTF can anyone possibly know what the re raiser has and 22 should get binned. (Basically they are praying the other guy has AK so they are 50/50, then they get counterfeited when JJQQ3 land!)
You can raise with ANYTHING, but numpies call re raises with low pocket pairs, because AT BEST you have a 50/50 chance of winning + and most re raising will probably be a mile in front.
When you raise you are asking a question, and if you get re raised you have a dilemma and choice.
In a 28p S&G it is irrelevant, but in the later stages of a qualifying tournament it is plain daft to call a re raise with a low pocket pair or King high etc.
This is not correct. What you say will be the correct play a lot of the time. But not all of the time. Simply because of what @TheEdge949 says:-
"Easy to say in isolation but unless we know the circumstances and have info regarding stack sizes, blinds, pot odds, implied odds, players left, payout structure etc. It's not necessarily a bad play."
If the blinds are 600/1200 and the SB shoves for a total of 1201 chips, is it a fold? Of course not. And when to call with 22 depends not only on the Raiser, but also the caller. If the BB has 1201 chips, it is always a call. Similarly, having 2400 chips in my example will usually be a call. Again, if the caller has 60,000 chips he can happily call a 6,000 shove in my example. Simply because he is gambling chips that have little value for him. Which is why one of the best players on this site called Jez with something like 9 3.
In an MTT, implied odds can often mean that calling with 22 to a raiser is correct. In addition, floating is hugely profitable against certain players. For example, on a recent thread, a player in the last 3 of the Sunday Major called a reraise with K2, then called a sizeable bet on the flop with just a gutshot. Not something I would (or could) ever do-but he is one of the best players on this site. I suggest you look at that hand. And think who wins that hand if Haysie had KK instead of AA-he gets floated off of it..
Chips have different values at different times in tournaments. All things being equal, what you say is usually correct. But on occasions it is not.
I hope you and others carry on calling re raises with 22 or 33.
I have no issues with actually raising with it or K2.
Players that regularly take chances will eventually come a cropper and they do not impress me. I would be more likely to re raise someone like you compared to players that i know are solid.
I comprehend your reasons and logic, however I want to go to war with the strongest army, and taking random risks when i have been re raised is not an option.
When i have £3 in a cash game, or playing for points in cheap S&Gs, i will chuck my chips in with random hands, but never if it involves serious money.
You clearly understand that there are occasions when it is better to retreat with the superior Army.
You equally clearly do not understand that there are occasions when it is better to stand and fight even though you have the weaker Army.
Even though they are the 2 sides of the exact same coin.
These are not "random" risks. They are calculated risks.
"Solid" players are losing poker players. Who play so tightly that people do not reraise them. For the exact reasons you mention.
I will re raise anyone if i think i am in front, but unfortunately even donks get good cards.
However i will not call re raises with **** and give another player more power.
You are welcome to try your tactics if i ever re raise you, because i will never try and bluff a person who is likely to call me with rubbish.
If you ever bump into essexphil in a casino will you be punching him in the face?
No i would be more likely to buy him a drink and have a chat about cards. Sheesh!
Comments
You equally clearly do not understand that there are occasions when it is better to stand and fight even though you have the weaker Army.
Even though they are the 2 sides of the exact same coin.
These are not "random" risks. They are calculated risks.
"Solid" players are losing poker players. Who play so tightly that people do not reraise them. For the exact reasons you mention.
However i will not call re raises with **** and give another player more power.
You are welcome to try your tactics if i ever re raise you, because i will never try and bluff a person who is likely to call me with rubbish.