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Very Interesting pro comment on YouTube 'Game of Gold' Ep6

TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
edited November 2023 in Poker Chat
So ive been enjoying the new poker series Game of Gold on YouTube as suggested by MadProf recently. Wow Jungleman is so grumpy! I suggest you take a look, its good tv....

In episode 6, at 39mins in, Maria Ho and Charlie Carrell are in a hand HU.... Ho holds Jc 4c and Carrell Ks Qc... on a board of

Qs 9c 10h 8d 8h, there has been betting throughout the hand. Ho has just thrown out a just under pot sized-ish bet with her straight.

Carrell makes the interesting comment of 'if i was playing online, id fold this...but.... im strong'....

It appears Carrell seems its highly likely online his strong looking hand HU on the flop, would be definitely beaten later on in the hand there, but maybe that his hand is good in the live situation....

Its another interesting comment, along with the one i saw back in the day when a table full of FullTilt pro's laughed when one of them said 'wow thats an internet flop'......

What on earth do these pro's mean!?

Argue with me, say im this and that.... its cool.... but it seems these are poker pro's thinking there is a big difference in internet boards.....

Hey its their comments, im just trying to understand what they mean.....



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Comments

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    johnmontyjohnmonty Member Posts: 98
    carrel was suggesting he might call because of live tells not online or in person decks
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    green_beergreen_beer Member Posts: 1,843
    live is a different game, it plays different because of the physical tells imo.........online you only have the patterns of play, live you still have the patterns, but the ability to study the body lanuage of opponents seems much more important.....i wonder if the ratio of bluffing is much higher online compared to live.....
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    mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,525
    That's right, if it was online, fold it, next hand, better spot.

    There isn't some coded message that Carrel is trying to share about sky poker dealing enhanced hands.
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    There was absolutely nothing in what he said, to suggest live reads came into this comment... He was clearly saying he would insta fold to this board online, but consider calling here...

    Green_beer then says the ratio of bluffing is much higher online whilst explaining it away... so if thats the case, why would Carrell fold to this board online normally? Wouldnt that be the other way round!




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    green_beergreen_beer Member Posts: 1,843
    edited November 2023
    TheWaddy said:

    There was absolutely nothing in what he said, to suggest live reads came into this comment... He was clearly saying he would insta fold to this board online, but consider calling here...

    Green_beer then says the ratio of bluffing is much higher online whilst explaining it away... so if thats the case, why would Carrell fold to this board online normally? Wouldnt that be the other way round!




    because its harder to know if the bluff is a bluff online....because of the lack of physical tells......

    and i said i wonder if it is higher, not it is higher.
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    mumsie said:

    That's right, if it was online, fold it, next hand, better spot.

    There isn't some coded message that Carrel is trying to share about sky poker dealing enhanced hands.

    Very strange reply, but i accept you guys are struggling on this one.... so he could say im going to fold and wait for a better spot... that would be a normal comment.... but chooses to talk about what he would online... of course makes no sense..

    is that even an attempt at interpretation??

    As for a coded message... theres no code in a straight out comment....
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    Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 554
    I think you should ask him if he said that because he knows online is rigged. He's quite responsive on X and the GG videos. Let us know how you get on.
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592

    TheWaddy said:

    There was absolutely nothing in what he said, to suggest live reads came into this comment... He was clearly saying he would insta fold to this board online, but consider calling here...

    Green_beer then says the ratio of bluffing is much higher online whilst explaining it away... so if thats the case, why would Carrell fold to this board online normally? Wouldnt that be the other way round!




    because its harder to know if the bluff is a bluff online....because of the lack of physical tells......

    and i said i wonder if it is higher, not it is higher.
    I dont play much hold em anymore.... but if Carrell says he is always folding here, that gives you an indication of how often players are bluffing in this spot, as he knows they will almost nearly always have it... i mean he should know right?

    The only reason he says he would normally fold online in this spot, even when he describes his hand 'as strong'... as indeed it is Heads Up.... is that clearly he thinks he will always be beat. But he may call here though.....
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    Bean81 said:

    I think you should ask him if he said that because he knows online is rigged. He's quite responsive on X and the GG videos. Let us know how you get on.

    Yes he would quickly backtrack, we know this....

    It amuses me that you guys come straight on and attempt to decipher something that can only be interpreted one way! He is saying he is folding this hand everytime online.... because it will never be any good...

    Yet its a strong hand HU and in this tv programme there is absolutely no nittiness going on from this guy..... but he would fold that hand everytime online.... hmmm hard to decipher that i must admit :D
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    Anyone want to have a go at the Full Tilt well known faces tv table where the comment was 'wow thats an internet flop'... and all the table laughed?

    Anyone want to decipher that in any different way to an ultra plain as day comment?



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    johnmontyjohnmonty Member Posts: 98
    he just said if I was playing online I would fold this he never said always or every time like youve said in the 2 posts above...exaggerating to fit your agenda who wouldve thought it

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    Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 554
    edited November 2023
    TheWaddy said:

    Bean81 said:

    I think you should ask him if he said that because he knows online is rigged. He's quite responsive on X and the GG videos. Let us know how you get on.

    Yes he would quickly backtrack, we know this....

    It amuses me that you guys come straight on and attempt to decipher something that can only be interpreted one way! He is saying he is folding this hand everytime online.... because it will never be any good...

    Yet its a strong hand HU and in this tv programme there is absolutely no nittiness going on from this guy..... but he would fold that hand everytime online.... hmmm hard to decipher that i must admit :D
    Yeah man, he definitely isn't using speech play to generate a read....or to make himself look good on TV if Maria is bluffing when he pretends to think about a call ...This can only be deciphered one way...

    It's ridiculous to suggest one pair on that board is a strong hand HU. It's a trivial fold against all but the most balanced or lunatic players. If Charlie checked back the flop online like he did here, you would be saying the only way to decipher that is because Charlie knows he will be beaten by the river due to the enhanced deck.

    Was your Full Tilt player by any chance Mike Matusow?
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    johnmonty said:

    he just said if I was playing online I would fold this he never said always or every time like youve said in the 2 posts above...exaggerating to fit your agenda who wouldve thought it


    Lol....' if i was playing online i would fold this'.....I Interpret it as he is folding in that situation online... why put it that way and even say it if sometimes he would sometimes he wouldnt....

    Whereas you interpretation from 'if i was playing online i would fold this' is that he has a physical read on Ho and that he will sometimes/often call online too!

    Someone appears to be trying for it to fit their agenda, but it sure aint me!
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    Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 554
    johnmonty said:

    he just said if I was playing online I would fold this he never said always or every time like youve said in the 2 posts above...exaggerating to fit your agenda who wouldve thought it

    Along with "betting throughout the hand" when the flop goes check check. Then thinking this is episode 5 when it's episode 6. ...But hey, he knows what he saw....like the period he lost hundreds of consecutive all ins on 888 at PLO8 when facing a short stack.
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    If you think its relevant to Carrels comment, i have altered my error to the correct episode. There was betting throughout the hand, but Carrell attempted to trap on the flop as he knows Ho is so nitty ... so again apologies there, one street of no bet...

    I saw this hand once. I saw the hands at 888 some 600+ times....... there is a clue there, accountant, to why i may recall one poorly and the other to a tee.......

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    kapowblamzkapowblamz Member Posts: 1,540
    edited November 2023
    @TheWaddy

    Many many more hands, per hour, are played online than live. Many more. I know that, and you know that.

    This massive differential can create mental biases in participant's or spectator's minds when trying to interpret how often certain variables occur. This is where things like 'it's like an internet hand' crop up. It's quite a natural reaction and one that you exhibit strongly.

    Also, Charlie Carrell is not your standard human. He would be a massive statistical outlier on any measure of pros who might have said such a thing.

    Nothing to see here.
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    Bean81 said:

    TheWaddy said:

    Bean81 said:

    I think you should ask him if he said that because he knows online is rigged. He's quite responsive on X and the GG videos. Let us know how you get on.

    Yes he would quickly backtrack, we know this....

    It amuses me that you guys come straight on and attempt to decipher something that can only be interpreted one way! He is saying he is folding this hand everytime online.... because it will never be any good...

    Yet its a strong hand HU and in this tv programme there is absolutely no nittiness going on from this guy..... but he would fold that hand everytime online.... hmmm hard to decipher that i must admit :D
    Yeah man, he definitely isn't using speech play to generate a read....or to make himself look good on TV if Maria is bluffing when he pretends to think about a call ...This can only be deciphered one way...

    It's ridiculous to suggest one pair on that board is a strong hand HU. It's a trivial fold against all but the most balanced or lunatic players. If Charlie checked back the flop online like he did here, you would be saying the only way to decipher that is because Charlie knows he will be beaten by the river due to the enhanced deck.

    Was your Full Tilt player by any chance Mike Matusow?
    I can only think you dont play much heads up poker. Its a niche field. Your suggestion that KQ on that board is a trivial fold/ not strong heads up, i find bemusing. Hes losing to handful of hands against just one opponent.

    A player worth $9m would not be folding that as standard. He folds to Maria Ho live, as she has been playing ABC poker and has been discussed as being nitty in the green rooms in this programme. Its an easy fold. No physical read required. Shes telling you by betting this amount.

    However had he been playing Fedor there, he would much more likely to consider a call here, as from what Fedor has been saying in the green room, hes even betting with a worse queen here... as well of course, as it being a chance of complete air and repping the jack...

    So the only decision was who he was playing.

    But if he was playing online, he would fold there was the comment. He would fold because he is almost never winning on that board, regardless of who he was playing.



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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,450
    edited November 2023
    Sorry but if you don't think that is a fairly easy fold then I don't know what to say. There is so much that beats him and nearly all of that is in Ho's range. At that point his pair of Qs with a King Kicker is pretty much only a bluff catcher.

    You say it was strong HU on the FLOP, yes it was, not two streets later however.

    I'm probably not folding in a 2.20 BH but that's about it.
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    TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,592
    I did say it was an easy fold to a player like Ho......And if it was a full table... however playing a good HU player in a HU match, not so much.... hes gonna be repping that straight so many times... i mean Carrell folded right? So if a player has not got it, he was able to bluff him off the hand and a good player like Fedor knows that.

    It amuses me that you are prepared to challenge my opinions on HU play, after losing 7-0 in a challenge were you decided enough was enough and ran.... although we had 93 left to play!

    And then you went from saying derogatory remarks about my ability beforehand, to saying you were playing 'a specialist' after losing.....

    Your a funny guy. You amuse me.


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    bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,707
    TheWaddy said:

    Hey it’s their comments, im just trying to understand what they mean.....

    …and not doing a particularly good job of it.

    Of all the differences between playing HU, on this show, in this format, on TV that he could be referring to you’ve managed to narrow him down to only one possible meaning and that being that enhanced hands are being dealt online (unsure whether they’d played this particular hand on a bank holiday).

    Think you need to work on your ranging.
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