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Very Interesting pro comment on YouTube 'Game of Gold' Ep6

24

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  • TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,580
    And 'thats an internet flop'? How many meanings of that do you want to offer? Whats your range there?

    Another saying in the green rooms (along with many other online poker phrases like 'click it back') that keeps coming up in this programme is 'its a set up'.... when a card comes off that will make a player lose a considerable amount.... this is a phrase that derived from playing online where players felt that sites set up hands for big pots.

    I guess if bbmike/Bean/Johnmonty was there, they would instantly abuse them and say 'how very dare you'.......

    But this is the way vastly experienced players in both online and live events are talking. Its all there in the episodes. Dont shoot the messenger!



  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,022
    TheWaddy said:

    I did say it was an easy fold to a player like Ho......And if it was a full table... however playing a good HU player in a HU match, not so much.... hes gonna be repping that straight so many times... i mean Carrell folded right? So if a player has not got it, he was able to bluff him off the hand and a good player like Fedor knows that.

    It amuses me that you are prepared to challenge my opinions on HU play, after losing 7-0 in a challenge were you decided enough was enough and ran.... although we had 93 left to play!

    And then you went from saying derogatory remarks about my ability beforehand, to saying you were playing 'a specialist' after losing.....

    Your a funny guy. You amuse me.


    haven't run for cover, I'm usually around at 13.30 or thereabouts. It's just that being the only car owner and driver in my family and with a life, frequently and at short notice LIFE gets in the way.

    Oh and I may have called you "Special" but "I" never called you a specialist. You are currently beating me 7 - 0 You play only PLO8 HUSNG and have for years apparently. I have played approximately 15 times ever so I'm not expecting to win, although the 30+ minutes it takes you to eventually beat me gives me satisfaction.

    See you tomorrow hopefully.
  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 824
    @TheWaddy So you think GG poker (the world's largest online poker site who have spent millions on and have full creative rights of the show) elected to televise a comment that could be interpreted as online poker being rigged?
  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 824
    Carrel is renowned for being a specialist with live reads. He says all sorts of things to elicit the response he is looking for. Unfortunately he's on a much higher level in that area than anyone on here so we can only guess as to what he is actually looking for.
  • Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 459

    Carrel is renowned for being a specialist with live reads. He says all sorts of things to elicit the response he is looking for. Unfortunately he's on a much higher level in that area than anyone on here so we can only guess as to what he is actually looking for.

    This, basically. But apparently the only logical interpretation is that Carrel is saying online is rigged.
  • Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 459
    TheWaddy said:

    And 'thats an internet flop'? How many meanings of that do you want to offer? Whats your range there?

    Another saying in the green rooms (along with many other online poker phrases like 'click it back') that keeps coming up in this programme is 'its a set up'.... when a card comes off that will make a player lose a considerable amount.... this is a phrase that derived from playing online where players felt that sites set up hands for big pots.

    I guess if bbmike/Bean/Johnmonty was there, they would instantly abuse them and say 'how very dare you'.......

    But this is the way vastly experienced players in both online and live events are talking. Its all there in the episodes. Dont shoot the messenger!



    What on earth are you on about?
  • Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 459
    TheWaddy said:

    If you think its relevant to Carrels comment, i have altered my error to the correct episode. There was betting throughout the hand, but Carrell attempted to trap on the flop as he knows Ho is so nitty ... so again apologies there, one street of no bet...

    I saw this hand once. I saw the hands at 888 some 600+ times....... there is a clue there, accountant, to why i may recall one poorly and the other to a tee.......

    Your hand reasoning makes no sense. You don't check to trap on a board like that and you don't trap nitty players.

    And yes, of course you lost 600 consecutive preflop all ins at PLO8. What did 888 say when you showed them the hand histories or recorded footage? And what did the 2+2 community say when you made them aware of the bug? No, didn't think so.
  • Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 459
    edited November 2023
    TheWaddy said:


    I can only think you dont play much heads up poker. Its a niche field. Your suggestion that KQ on that board is a trivial fold/ not strong heads up, i find bemusing. Hes losing to handful of hands against just one opponent.

    A player worth $9m would not be folding that as standard. He folds to Maria Ho live, as she has been playing ABC poker and has been discussed as being nitty in the green rooms in this programme. Its an easy fold. No physical read required. Shes telling you by betting this amount.

    However had he been playing Fedor there, he would much more likely to consider a call here, as from what Fedor has been saying in the green room, hes even betting with a worse queen here... as well of course, as it being a chance of complete air and repping the jack...

    So the only decision was who he was playing.

    But if he was playing online, he would fold there was the comment. He would fold because he is almost never winning on that board, regardless of who he was playing.

    Happy to play you live or online HU anytime NLHE. Cash games preferably. We can stream it for fun.

    The hand is a bluff catch vs a strong player like Fedor after the flop check back. As I said above. It's a routine explo fold against most online and live players. If you think KQ is strong on that board, I can see why you think it's rigged when you can't fold any bluff catchers.
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,022

    TheWaddy said:

    I did say it was an easy fold to a player like Ho......And if it was a full table... however playing a good HU player in a HU match, not so much.... hes gonna be repping that straight so many times... i mean Carrell folded right? So if a player has not got it, he was able to bluff him off the hand and a good player like Fedor knows that.

    It amuses me that you are prepared to challenge my opinions on HU play, after losing 7-0 in a challenge were you decided enough was enough and ran.... although we had 93 left to play!

    And then you went from saying derogatory remarks about my ability beforehand, to saying you were playing 'a specialist' after losing.....

    Your a funny guy. You amuse me.


    haven't run for cover, I'm usually around at 13.30 or thereabouts. It's just that being the only car owner and driver in my family and with a life, frequently and at short notice LIFE gets in the way.

    Oh and I may have called you "Special" but "I" never called you a specialist. You are currently beating me 7 - 0 You play only PLO8 HUSNG and have for years apparently. I have played approximately 15 times ever so I'm not expecting to win, although the 30+ minutes it takes you to eventually beat me gives me satisfaction.

    See you tomorrow hopefully.
    Nope, didn't show. I sat and lost to @Kinda6677 instead.
  • TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,580
    edited November 2023
    @Bean81.. lets say this for the 1000th time... i play for £1 online at hi lo, as i dont consider it sensible to gamble bigger money on something that appears to be for entertainment purposes.
    How many times are you going to say stuff like 'lets have £1k bet'. 'lets play heads up at hold em for bigger money'....we know you like to show off your social standing, we get the message.

    @TheEdge949 .... i rearranged my days to accommodate your requested 1.30pm, where then for 2 days you didnt show with one excuse as being 'you couldnt be bothered'... that was very nice of you.... it generally takes 30mins+ to win a game, as the first 21mins blinds are 10/20 to 30/60 and its POT LIMIT! By all means, use the time as some kind of victory at a slow blinds, PL game........

    @FeelGroggy GG poker are indeed beind this programme... but as with the gambling commission, bigwigs at GG sorting out this show and most involved, they will be totally oblivious to the connotations of comments like ' if i was playing online id fold' or 'ohhh thats a set up'...
  • Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 459
    TheWaddy said:

    @Bean81.. lets say this for the 1000th time... i play for £1 online at hi lo, as i dont consider it sensible to gamble bigger money on something that appears to be for entertainment purposes.
    How many times are you going to say stuff like 'lets have £1k bet'. 'lets play heads up at hold em for bigger money'....we know you like to show off your social standing, we get the message

    Eh? I said I would be happy to play you HU live or online and didn't mention the stakes. We can play some £1 NLHE slow speed games.
  • TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,580
    I had no idea you were wanting to travel 300 miles to play a £1 HU sng live, my mistake …. I thought that would involve much higher stakes, silly me….
  • TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,580
    Bean81 said:

    TheWaddy said:


    I can only think you dont play much heads up poker. Its a niche field. Your suggestion that KQ on that board is a trivial fold/ not strong heads up, i find bemusing. Hes losing to handful of hands against just one opponent.

    A player worth $9m would not be folding that as standard. He folds to Maria Ho live, as she has been playing ABC poker and has been discussed as being nitty in the green rooms in this programme. Its an easy fold. No physical read required. Shes telling you by betting this amount.

    However had he been playing Fedor there, he would much more likely to consider a call here, as from what Fedor has been saying in the green room, hes even betting with a worse queen here... as well of course, as it being a chance of complete air and repping the jack...

    So the only decision was who he was playing.

    But if he was playing online, he would fold there was the comment. He would fold because he is almost never winning on that board, regardless of who he was playing.

    Happy to play you live or online HU anytime NLHE. Cash games preferably. We can stream it for fun.

    The hand is a bluff catch vs a strong player like Fedor after the flop check back. As I said above. It's a routine explo fold against most online and live players. If you think KQ is strong on that board, I can see why you think it's rigged when you can't fold any bluff catchers.
    You talk very matter of factly. If you watch the Arieh v Stacks HU game, especially the K7 v K9 hand … almost every pro there has a different take on everything from bet sizing to whether it was a mad fold or good fold given the situation. There is no right answer. In my opinion as a heads up player of 20yrs, if you are looking to fold KQ on that flop or turn most times, you are going to get run over very quickly.

    He’s only losing to a jack on the turn and the rainbow board helps that further. If you are simply just going to fold every time someone reps these kind of hands HU, you are going to make it very easy for them! To suggest top pair, king kicker is not a strong hand heads up, it’s going to be in your top 5-10 hands most HU games… of course figuring out whether it’s beat depending on who you are playing is another thing, but bluff catching is a big big part of heads up play, far far more than standard table play!

    Andy Stacks by his own admission wasn’t confident or experienced in HU play and got bluffed quite inexplicably off hands in this game v Arieh. To say KQ was a routine fold against anyone but a Nit and that the hand isn’t strong, you are in Andy Stacks territory there…. fedor would think you were insane to describe this as a routine fold….

    It’s just a routine fold versus Ho and the likes….

  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 824
    KQ is definitely a rough spot for Charlie on river. Thewaddy is right in that you are for sure going to have to make some uncomfortable calls with none straights on this board in theory so it's just a matter of trying to rank your bluff-catchers by how efficient they are as calls. The way Maria bluffs is likely going to be missed straight draws, hands like 75 or k3, so you probably don't want a king or seven, next worst will be a six in your hand and 5 is probably next worst. On river Charlie is going to have a much better call with AT or Q2 than a lot of other hands here. KQ is probably a poor bluff catcher compared to other hands you have but the principle of having to call none straights applies.
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,022
    TheWaddy said:

    @Bean81.. lets say this for the 1000th time... i play for £1 online at hi lo, as i dont consider it sensible to gamble bigger money on something that appears to be for entertainment purposes.
    How many times are you going to say stuff like 'lets have £1k bet'. 'lets play heads up at hold em for bigger money'....we know you like to show off your social standing, we get the message.

    @TheEdge949 .... i rearranged my days to accommodate your requested 1.30pm, where then for 2 days you didnt show with one excuse as being 'you couldnt be bothered'... that was very nice of you.... it generally takes 30mins+ to win a game, as the first 21mins blinds are 10/20 to 30/60 and its POT LIMIT! By all means, use the time as some kind of victory at a slow blinds, PL game........

    @FeelGroggy GG poker are indeed beind this programme... but as with the gambling commission, bigwigs at GG sorting out this show and most involved, they will be totally oblivious to the connotations of comments like ' if i was playing online id fold' or 'ohhh thats a set up'...

    No you didn't. What a wind up merchant you are eh? Also since when has life getting in the way equate to not being bothered.

    I have already noticed a couple of things about your game. Firstly you are very agg when there's the chance of you taking the low however you seem to like folding a lot with no low possibility on the board after the turn.

    Secondly you seem completely risk averse which I can understand in a £5 game or higher but in a £1 game seems overly nitty. Perhaps you play simply for stats and ego which would explain your victim mindset when others get a little luck in their favour, like the hundreds of consecutive games / hands you lost heads up.

    This obviously has created a confirmation bias that you cannot escape from.

    As the old saying goes. If you hear hooves clattering down the street, yes it's possible that it may be zebras. 99.999% of people though, would think horses and 99.99999% of the time would be correct.

    Although you might try and convince us it's unicorns.

    Have a great Weekend.

  • SCOTFOXSCOTFOX Member Posts: 164
    Just been remind of a top choon............Ramble on Led Zeppelin
  • TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,580
    @The Edge said: No you didn't. What a wind up merchant you are eh? Also since when has life getting in the way equate to not being bothered.

    TheEdge949 Member Posts: 4,840
    November 14


    TheWaddy said:

    » show previous quotes
    Or alternatively, you can suggest a 1.30pm time for the Monday and simply not turn up.... or on the Tuesday either......

    Had my new skull motif headband on and everything....

    Sorry, yesterday the wife had a hospital appointment and today I couldn't be bothered tbh. Tomorrow I'm having a Doplar scan 13.00 until 15.30 so maybe Thursday.


    Oh dear, who was telling the truth and who was telling porkies.......
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,022
    You bite more frequently than a hungry piranha, like I said some days I can play some days I have more important things to do.

    If you want I can PM you every time I'm on the site with time to play. Yeah, ok, will that suit your Highness.

    As you so proudly said it's 7 - 0 to you with 93 more to play and last time you didn't show. I was kind of hoping we could get this out of the way so that your chosen charity can get the money, assuming you win of course, before the New Year.

  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,022
    LOL, Not around today I see.
  • TheWaddyTheWaddy Member Posts: 1,580
    Thank you for the comments where Charlie Carrell stated on Game of Gold 'if i was playing online id fold this hand.... but... im strong', of which you all suggested that this was nothing negative towards online poker.

    Charlie has since come out exposing the massive problems online poker has, which of course, would influence his decisions.

    The first pro to actively come out and say (actually say the words, no having to read between the lines like above), 'i dont have any financial connection to any online site and even if i did, i would speak out and give up the cash'....

    At last! Good for you Charlie, the only one it seems, was not prepared to sell his soul and sell out poker, just to advertise something that they absolutely know is not quite right in several areas.

    Hes called out Negreanu, hes called out ElkY ans as we know there are many many others. I especially loved Chris Moneymakers challenge for a bot to be rewarded with $100k 'and a job' if they could prove they are one!!!!! hmmm give up a million making bot for a job and a $100k!!!

    That one was straight out of the Sky Forum naivity club, it appears poker players dont have much going on up there.

    Cue TheEdge and Mumsie thinking they have a great joke by typing 'thats certainly true in your case' and several ticking 'lol'........
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