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Police Told To Make Fewer Arrests To Help Jails.

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 163,247


    That's beyond staggering.

    It's almost like it's an April Fool's joke.

    Seriously? Delay or put off arrests because the system can't cope?
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    goldongoldon Member Posts: 8,665
    They mean stop arresting them. !
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Tikay10 said:



    That's beyond staggering.

    It's almost like it's an April Fool's joke.

    Seriously? Delay or put off arrests because the system can't cope?

    Just another solution that the general public may consider to be unacceptable.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 163,247

    This...


    "It also suggests halting planned operations where a large number of arrests could take place to "ease the pressure within the criminal justice system"."


    From here....


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2274gdk10o



    As a general rule of thumb, I would have thought that in those circumstances, where a "large number of arrests" were due to be made, they were likely to be for very serious matters. And the suggestion - the OFFICIAL suggestion - is to not make those arrests.

    You gotta be kidding me.
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    EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,339
    It's been going on for a while now, a seemingly never ending downward spiral in standards, a race to the bottom. No respect for others and no respect for property. The police have an awful job to do and they're now being told not to do it. Shoplifting below £250? I don't think the police even attend now. We now have a population with a larger and larger proportion of people who expect everything to be given to them without them having to do anything for it, and often it is.

    When people know that there is little chance of their crimes being punished there is no deterrent. What do we expect will happen then? It's not rocket science is it.

    Sorry for the rant, off to work now.

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    EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,339
    Let's get criminals out of prisons, maybe in work parties fixing the roads? Heaven forbid, what about their rights!
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 163,247


    @Enut


    No need to apologise for the "rant", it was a great post actually.

    I can barely believe the whole story & I'm staggered it's not the "lead" headline in every news media platform, Print, TV & Digital.

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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    Number of prisons? 141

    Number of new prisons built since 2010? Hard to tell, as no published info. But looks like 0

    Number of "new" prisons, that are actually refurbs and/or extensions? 4.

    There are plans to build new prisons in the course of the next parliament. Because the current Govt is happy to commit to spending money. Just not while they are in power.

    So-we have prisons that are often more than 100 years old. That cost £40,000+ a year per inmate. With next to no capital spend.

    The prison population is not growing particularly quickly. It's just that prisons are being scrapped as they become dilapidated. And not replaced.

    Which means we cannot currently get criminals into prisons.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    The prison population may (according to Govt studies) increase by as much as 10% over the next 5 years. The reason?

    The Govt is trying to claim delays are caused by the pandemic. Not saying that is irrelevant. But there are other factors causing delays.

    1. 20% of all Courts (both Civil and Criminal) have shut since 2016. Closed because they were not making a "profit". Seriously-if Courts cannot get in sufficient "surcharges" and the like in fees they are shut
    2. There was a strike by Junior Barristers that took a long time to settle. Junior Criminal Barristers are not like the fat cats people have in their mind's eye. They can only dream of being paid like Junior Doctors
    3. Waiting 2 years between arrest and trial is commonplace. Where Judges have the unenviable choice of locking up innocent people for 2 years, or allowing guilty men an extra 2 years to commit crimes. While witnesses recollections fade

    There are nearly 10,000 people not currently in prison that should be as we catch up. Except we do not have the prison space.

    14 years in power. For the Party traditionally strong on law and order
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Essexphil said:

    The prison population may (according to Govt studies) increase by as much as 10% over the next 5 years. The reason?

    The Govt is trying to claim delays are caused by the pandemic. Not saying that is irrelevant. But there are other factors causing delays.

    1. 20% of all Courts (both Civil and Criminal) have shut since 2016. Closed because they were not making a "profit". Seriously-if Courts cannot get in sufficient "surcharges" and the like in fees they are shut
    2. There was a strike by Junior Barristers that took a long time to settle. Junior Criminal Barristers are not like the fat cats people have in their mind's eye. They can only dream of being paid like Junior Doctors
    3. Waiting 2 years between arrest and trial is commonplace. Where Judges have the unenviable choice of locking up innocent people for 2 years, or allowing guilty men an extra 2 years to commit crimes. While witnesses recollections fade

    There are nearly 10,000 people not currently in prison that should be as we catch up. Except we do not have the prison space.

    14 years in power. For the Party traditionally strong on law and order

    You outline a series of problems.
    The majority of which are quite easily solved.
    Although that will require recognition that they are problems, in addition to a will to solve them.
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    The prison population may (according to Govt studies) increase by as much as 10% over the next 5 years. The reason?

    The Govt is trying to claim delays are caused by the pandemic. Not saying that is irrelevant. But there are other factors causing delays.

    1. 20% of all Courts (both Civil and Criminal) have shut since 2016. Closed because they were not making a "profit". Seriously-if Courts cannot get in sufficient "surcharges" and the like in fees they are shut
    2. There was a strike by Junior Barristers that took a long time to settle. Junior Criminal Barristers are not like the fat cats people have in their mind's eye. They can only dream of being paid like Junior Doctors
    3. Waiting 2 years between arrest and trial is commonplace. Where Judges have the unenviable choice of locking up innocent people for 2 years, or allowing guilty men an extra 2 years to commit crimes. While witnesses recollections fade

    There are nearly 10,000 people not currently in prison that should be as we catch up. Except we do not have the prison space.

    14 years in power. For the Party traditionally strong on law and order

    You outline a series of problems.
    The majority of which are quite easily solved.
    Although that will require recognition that they are problems, in addition to a will to solve them.
    My nearest Criminal Court used to be 1 mile away. That building was sold, money not reinvested. Nearest Criminal Court now 20 miles away.

    My nearest Civil Court used to be 3 miles away. Building sold, money not reinvested. Then it was 20 miles away. Building sold, money not reinvested. Nearest now 40 miles away.

    The area where I live-the Tendring Peninsular has 150,000 people. And no Courts. Essex has approximately 2 million people. Think there are 6 Courts left (3 criminal, 3 Civil).

    "Fixing" that would cost money. A lot of money. Together with a realisation that not everything is dependant on "market forces"
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    The prison population may (according to Govt studies) increase by as much as 10% over the next 5 years. The reason?

    The Govt is trying to claim delays are caused by the pandemic. Not saying that is irrelevant. But there are other factors causing delays.

    1. 20% of all Courts (both Civil and Criminal) have shut since 2016. Closed because they were not making a "profit". Seriously-if Courts cannot get in sufficient "surcharges" and the like in fees they are shut
    2. There was a strike by Junior Barristers that took a long time to settle. Junior Criminal Barristers are not like the fat cats people have in their mind's eye. They can only dream of being paid like Junior Doctors
    3. Waiting 2 years between arrest and trial is commonplace. Where Judges have the unenviable choice of locking up innocent people for 2 years, or allowing guilty men an extra 2 years to commit crimes. While witnesses recollections fade

    There are nearly 10,000 people not currently in prison that should be as we catch up. Except we do not have the prison space.

    14 years in power. For the Party traditionally strong on law and order

    You outline a series of problems.
    The majority of which are quite easily solved.
    Although that will require recognition that they are problems, in addition to a will to solve them.
    My nearest Criminal Court used to be 1 mile away. That building was sold, money not reinvested. Nearest Criminal Court now 20 miles away.

    My nearest Civil Court used to be 3 miles away. Building sold, money not reinvested. Then it was 20 miles away. Building sold, money not reinvested. Nearest now 40 miles away.

    The area where I live-the Tendring Peninsular has 150,000 people. And no Courts. Essex has approximately 2 million people. Think there are 6 Courts left (3 criminal, 3 Civil).

    "Fixing" that would cost money. A lot of money. Together with a realisation that not everything is dependant on "market forces"
    These actions just created a problem.
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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,458
    Why can't all the assets seized under Pace be used to fund the much needed upgrade in the system. By all accounts its £Billions each year.

    Or is that expecting common sense.
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    goldongoldon Member Posts: 8,665
    Do nothing it's easier.......
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368

    Why can't all the assets seized under Pace be used to fund the much needed upgrade in the system. By all accounts its £Billions each year.

    Or is that expecting common sense.

    The assets seized tend not to have much value. Unless you want to be a drug dealer ;)

    The "system" is told it has to be self-financing. Which is why lots of Courts are shut. Small police stations are sold. And most larger ones are no longer open to the Public.
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    green_beergreen_beer Member Posts: 1,846
    give the people universal basic income, decriminalise drug use, invest in community centers and education.

    give the people some hope and engage with the youth in meaningful ways, put people on the right path........... much more effective than building more prisons or locking more people up......

    we need to break the vicious cycle or nothing ever improves. fix the poverty and you fix most of the crimes....... imho

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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 163,247
    edited May 22
    Essexphil said:

    Why can't all the assets seized under Pace be used to fund the much needed upgrade in the system. By all accounts its £Billions each year.

    Or is that expecting common sense.

    The assets seized tend not to have much value. Unless you want to be a drug dealer ;)

    The "system" is told it has to be self-financing. Which is why lots of Courts are shut. Small police stations are sold. And most larger ones are no longer open to the Public.
    Many Police Stations these days are PFI financed. Or, put another way, the businesses who finance, build & maintain them all make lots of lovely money, & the Police pay way over the odds. In my (proper) working days I was Contract Manager for a PFI financed new-build Police Station. I still shudder at the thought of how illogical & financially inefficient (for the Police) it all was. And to this day, the Police are still paying for it.
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    mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,535
    Essexphil said:

    Why can't all the assets seized under Pace be used to fund the much needed upgrade in the system. By all accounts its £Billions each year.

    Or is that expecting common sense.

    The assets seized tend not to have much value. Unless you want to be a drug dealer ;)

    The "system" is told it has to be self-financing. Which is why lots of Courts are shut. . And most larger ones are no longer open to the Public.



    Ive seen the court house buildings demolished and sold to private companies for development. These courts relocated to different towns adding financial difficulty for someone on low income to get to the court to defend themselves.



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    goldongoldon Member Posts: 8,665
    Where did it all go Wrong. ! Oh! yes we voted the wrong people in power, silly us.
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    EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,339
    goldon said:

    Where did it all go Wrong. ! Oh! yes we voted the wrong people in power, silly us.

    Well we will probably have a Labour government by early 2025 at the latest so they'll have at least 5 years to sort everything out, don't hold your breath though.
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