7 bombshell texts show Paula Vennells pal told her 'I think you knew' about Post Office scandal Former Royal Mail boss Dame Moya Greene told ex-Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells 'I can't now support you' in text messages shown to the Horizon IT Inquiry
Thank goodness I have never been in that position. But I have sat alongside 2 people who were in a similar position.
There is no good answer. Absolutely nothing she could say or do (once it was finally clear that the rumours were true) which would avoid this sh1tstorm. I say that as someone who has (in the past) been paid to set out the options. And none of them are good. The appalling treatment of many sub-postmasters started in 1999 or earlier. 13 years before she became CEO.
And no amount of moralising will change that. All of us have made bad choices in whatever work we do. Which in all probability have ruined lives. Not entirely our fault. But we played a small part in it. And none of us have gone to jail.
But a lot of us feel entitled to Judge other people.
True, it started long before her period of tenure, therefore the question remains?
Did she know?
If yes why didn't she do something about it?
If no, given the time period and significance, why didn't she?
We all ' judge' based on what we see and hear...I guess for me the key differential is IF,
IF this was a criminal proceeding and her answers were on oath, with the raft of documentation that has been presented confirming she had access to known information, what she has said could be classed as perjury? ( Phil. Advise please)
Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law?
As it's a public enquiry I therefore presume , unless she specifically implicates herself ( or others, though she seems to be trying* to throw people under the bus all day) she could be immune from prosecution?
I've watched all of today, plan to watch the next 2 days as the nuances of the language used throughout is important- news bulletin snapshots can distort and not reflect what is said- so I do think Sir Wynn hit the nail on the head, which is why she crumbled!
Pity he left her to reflect and expect her to answer it tomorrow- by which time her legal team will construct a nebulous response, no doubt?!
Did she know? Certainly not at the beginning of her Tenure. Then there was a period when she suspected stuff. And, at some point, I expect she knew-although proving that is not easy
Perjury? Don't know. Simply because I do not know (1) Whether this counts as "judicial proceedings" within the Legislation and (2) Whether it can be proved that she lied (as opposed to clung on to stuff she hoped was true at the time)
"Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law"? Good old "Ignorantia Iuris Neminem Excusat". Something Law students are taught in about Week 2. Except it usually isn't true. Most offences are not "Strict Liability" offences. Necessary to prove some form of Intent for most stuff. And Perjury is as rare as rocking horse poo
She just seems to be 1 of a lot of people implicated in all this. And not a major player. But the major scapegoat. Why, for example, did Fujitsu not come clean 15 years before she was appointed?
PS. If you are unable to answer a question, cry instead
To be frank, the day went horribly for Paula Vennells Paula Vennells arrived at the Post Office Inquiry a former chief executive, a former Church of England lay preacher and an ex-CBE, with only her reputation, and perhaps her liberty, left to defend.
Having avoided scrutiny for nearly nine years, during which time the Post Office she ran has been revealed as deceitful, vindictive and shambolic, she should have expected nothing less.
Inside she faced an audience of around 150 sub-postmasters, the toughest of crowds for the person ultimately responsible for sending many of them to jail for crimes they didn't commit.
After a reminder from the inquiry chair Sir Wyn Williams about her right to avoid self-incrimination, her opening gambit was an apology.
She said sorry to the sub-postmasters and families whose lives had been ruined. She said sorry specifically to Mr Bates and Lord Arbuthnot, their parliamentary champion, and the investigators from Second Sight, who exposed the Post Office's failings on her behalf and she shut down for their trouble.
The respite lasted as long as it took Jason Beer KC to clear his throat. The lead counsel to the inquiry's principal weapon was irony and it was devastating, the more so for apparently being lost on Ms Vennells.
"Are you the unluckiest chief executive in history?" he asked.
After a pause, the first of many, she replied: "One of my reflections on all of this is that I was too trusting."
That captured her fundamental defence, which is that during 12 years at the Post Office, seven of them as chief executive, she was entirely unaware of the multiple issues that led to the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history.
After listing the multiple things she claims in her 775-page witness statement not to have known, from bugs in the Horizon computer system to instructions to shred documents, Mr Beer asked: "Was there a conspiracy, lasting 12 years, involving different people over time to deny you documents and falsely reassure?"
After careful consideration she concluded conspiracy might be going too far: "My deep sorrow is that individuals, myself included, made mistakes, didn't see things, didn't hear things."
Throughout the hearing she claimed not to have been aware of fundamental issues. For example, she said she did not know the Post Office could investigate and prosecute its staff, a power it has had since the 17th century, until she became chief executive.
When confronted with clear evidence she ought to have been aware of issues, in the form of emails and documents she admitted to sending and receiving, she claimed not to have understood their true meaning at the time.
Several times she was moved to tears. More frequently she was stunned into silence by questions, struggling to summon answers when trapped by the contradictions in her evidence.
The sub-postmasters, meanwhile, struggled to contain their disdain, hollow laughter greeting several answers.
There was no laughter when she was challenged about the suicide of sub-postmaster Martin Griffiths, and an email in which she appeared to attribute it to his mental health, rather than the actions of Post Office investigators who were pursuing him.
"Sorry is not an adequate word, I am just very sorry that Mr Griffiths is not here today," she said.
She has two more days in the witness stand, and on this evidence, nowhere to go.
Paula Vennells’ claims she was unaware of Horizon bugs, fact checked
Claim: Ms Vennells made false statement to MPs in 2015 Ms Vennells admitted that she made a false statement to MPs in 2015 – but she claimed she did not realise she was lying.
She broke down in tears mid-evidence as she apologised for telling MPs the Post Office was successful in every court case against sub-postmasters.
Ms Vennells told parliamentarians that every Post Office prosecution involving Horizon had been successful, according to minutes shown to the inquiry, which was untrue in five cases where postmasters had won, or been acquitted at trial.
As she answered, she appeared to tear up: “I fully accept now that Post Office knew…I’m incredibly sorry that that happened to those people and to so many others.”
I cannot understand why we always allow ourselves to be manipulated in this way.
Paula Vennells is just the scapegoat. While the people who actually misled people are treated as though they had done nothing wrong.
The case that blew everything apart was in 2019. Let's look briefly at some of the facts relating to that. The Judge found that Fujitsu had given "wholly unsatisfactory evidence". That there had been a "lack of accuracy on the part of Fujitsu witnesses in their evidence", and that they had pressurised the UK Govt to sign off the controversial and faulty IT system that, as a result of its faulty operation, resulted in numerous UK postmasters being accused falsely...
Paula Vennells did not commit the fraud-she failed to spot the people who had. While it is conveniently ignored by the MP lynch mob that the Post Office was a public body when all this started. Funny how it is a Civil Servant involved in the Privatisation itself who is currently throwing her under the bus in relation to "Trust".
Paula Vennells will, in all probability, never work again. Tainted by what others did on her watch. I'd be a lot happier about that if the actual wrongdoers were being punished.
Fujitsu? Since 2019, received more than £3.4 Billion from the Govt or, more accurately, the Taxpayer.
Biggest Contract? They run various Computer Systems for HMRC. So, for example, when HMRC sit on information relating to Cliff-Edge Benefit payments, want to take a wild guess as to which Company is helping keep that information from people being hounded now?
Alan Bates says he has ‘no sympathy’ for tearful Paula Vennells after first day of her evidence
Lead campaigner and former subpostmaster Alan Bates has said he has “no sympathy” for Paula Vennells after she broke down twice during her first day of evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry.
Mr Bates said he met “senior” Metropolitan Police staff on Wednesday morning to discuss possible prosecutions following the Post Office Horizon scandal.
He said: “They certainly are going to investigate, I’ve had that assurance and I think the group (of subpostmasters) needs that as an assurance and it’s something that we’ve never been certain of until today.”
During her evidence to the probe, Ms Vennells stopped mid-answer and reached for a tissue as she was grilled about why she had provided a false statement to MPs that the Post Office had been successful in every case against subpostmasters.
Alan Bates says he has ‘no sympathy’ for tearful Paula Vennells after first day of her evidence
Lead campaigner and former subpostmaster Alan Bates has said he has “no sympathy” for Paula Vennells after she broke down twice during her first day of evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry.
Mr Bates said he met “senior” Metropolitan Police staff on Wednesday morning to discuss possible prosecutions following the Post Office Horizon scandal.
He said: “They certainly are going to investigate, I’ve had that assurance and I think the group (of subpostmasters) needs that as an assurance and it’s something that we’ve never been certain of until today.”
During her evidence to the probe, Ms Vennells stopped mid-answer and reached for a tissue as she was grilled about why she had provided a false statement to MPs that the Post Office had been successful in every case against subpostmasters.
The Judge sent a file to the Director of Public Prosecutions. In 2019. Nothing has happened-unless you count Fujitsu continuing to be allowed to run a whole host of Govt Contracts.
Heard anything about the Govt's behaviour in awarding the contract? Heard anything about the Govt's involvement in the Sale of the Company while no doubt denying the rumours about the computer contracts not being safe? Heard anything about the Govt cancelling the Contracts?
25 years of wrongdoing. 5 years of provable wrongdoing. No action.
I'm reminded of Ghislaine Maxwell. Where a bunch of men organised another bunch of men to take advantage of underage girls. And the only person in prison is the girlfriend of 1 of the men. While no-one looks at the actual perpetrators
I cannot understand why we always allow ourselves to be manipulated in this way.
Paula Vennells is just the scapegoat. While the people who actually misled people are treated as though they had done nothing wrong.
The case that blew everything apart was in 2019. Let's look briefly at some of the facts relating to that. The Judge found that Fujitsu had given "wholly unsatisfactory evidence". That there had been a "lack of accuracy on the part of Fujitsu witnesses in their evidence", and that they had pressurised the UK Govt to sign off the controversial and faulty IT system that, as a result of its faulty operation, resulted in numerous UK postmasters being accused falsely...
Paula Vennells did not commit the fraud-she failed to spot the people who had. While it is conveniently ignored by the MP lynch mob that the Post Office was a public body when all this started. Funny how it is a Civil Servant involved in the Privatisation itself who is currently throwing her under the bus in relation to "Trust".
Paula Vennells will, in all probability, never work again. Tainted by what others did on her watch. I'd be a lot happier about that if the actual wrongdoers were being punished.
Fujitsu? Since 2019, received more than £3.4 Billion from the Govt or, more accurately, the Taxpayer.
Biggest Contract? They run various Computer Systems for HMRC. So, for example, when HMRC sit on information relating to Cliff-Edge Benefit payments, want to take a wild guess as to which Company is helping keep that information from people being hounded now?
I agree that Fujitsu shouldnt escape scot-free. Although the PO ruined many peoples lives. Their continued denials that remote access was possible, and regularly occurred, surely played a huge part in their convictions. She admitted to lying to MPs in 2015. The PO investigated, and pursued the prosecutions. I think we are far from the end of this.
25 years of wrongdoing. 5 years of proof. £3.4 Billion of reward.
Although the PO ruined many peoples lives.
They did. No action against the people who were involved. Just v the person who didn't spot it
Their continued denials that remote access was possible, and regularly occurred, surely played a huge part in their convictions.
Whose denials? I see no action against the people who were remotely accessing.
She admitted to lying to MPs in 2015.
No. She has admitted to giving info that she now knows was false. Not that she knew was false in 2015
The PO investigated, and pursued the prosecutions. I think we are far from the end of this.
I'm sure you are right. But all the noise is focused away from the actual wrongdoers.
The PO conducted the investigations, and brought the prosecutions. The person who didnt spot it was in charge, and was either the worst boss ever, or is an out and out liar, or both. Surely the person in charge has a duty to know what is going on. The PO was instructing Fujitsu to remote access the accounts, and make adjustments, without the knowledge of the sub postmasters. This was how the shortages were created. Yet the PO maintained that remote access was not possible. This aspect must have been crucial in getting the convictions. The sub postmasters had a log in, which they believed nobody else could access. Fujitsu didnt make adjustments off their own bat. I think that who the police may take action against, if anybody, has yet to be decided. So you dont think that she was aware that they had been unsuccessful in 5 cases in 2015? The PO was denying that remote access was possible, while they were instructing Fujitsu to do so. The alternative is that Fujitsu were able to amend all the accounts at their leisure. Mayhem.
25 years of wrongdoing. 5 years of proof. £3.4 Billion of reward.
Although the PO ruined many peoples lives.
They did. No action against the people who were involved. Just v the person who didn't spot it
Their continued denials that remote access was possible, and regularly occurred, surely played a huge part in their convictions.
Whose denials? I see no action against the people who were remotely accessing.
She admitted to lying to MPs in 2015.
No. She has admitted to giving info that she now knows was false. Not that she knew was false in 2015
The PO investigated, and pursued the prosecutions. I think we are far from the end of this.
I'm sure you are right. But all the noise is focused away from the actual wrongdoers.
The PO conducted the investigations, and brought the prosecutions. The person who didnt spot it was in charge, and was either the worst boss ever, or is an out and out liar, or both. Surely the person in charge has a duty to know what is going on. The PO was instructing Fujitsu to remote access the accounts, and make adjustments, without the knowledge of the sub postmasters. This was how the shortages were created. Yet the PO maintained that remote access was not possible. This aspect must have been crucial in getting the convictions. The sub postmasters had a log in, which they believed nobody else could access. Fujitsu didnt make adjustments off their own bat. I think that who the police may take action against, if anybody, has yet to be decided. So you dont think that she was aware that they had been unsuccessful in 5 cases in 2015? The PO was denying that remote access was possible, while they were instructing Fujitsu to do so. The alternative is that Fujitsu were able to amend all the accounts at their leisure. Mayhem.
There is lots of stuff in your last post that you present as facts. But the simple fact is we do not know the truth of lots of this. We should do. But we do not.
Why should Paula Vennells be the "worst boss ever"? Her predecessor apparently failed to spot it. His predecessor failed to spot it. A whole host of people either failed to spot it-or were complicit in it.
We simply do not know whether the manipulations were done by the PO or by Fujitsu, or by both. It is clear that the 2019 Judge believed that Fujitsu were involved. 5 years later, there has been lots of talk. and no action.
The original Contract for Fujitsu was awarded by a Labour Govt. Who appointed people to run the Company, and oversee the contracts. This contract was renewed by successive Tory Govts, both appointing people to run, and then in 2013 sell, the Company. No doubt giving lots of assurances about these contracts-which turn out not to be true.
Being unsuccessful in 2015 cases is not the "smoking gun". Not being able to prove something beyond reasonable doubt is not the same as it not being true.
Fault lies with lots of people. Including the Labour and Conservative Govts and their appointees. Including Paula Vennells.
Sure. She's going to have a rough couple of days. She's had a rough 5 years. And doesn't look like she can cope.
Various reasons for that. One of them is she is carrying the can for an awful lot of people. Including a lot of awful people.
There is lots of stuff in your last post that you present as facts. But the simple fact is we do not know the truth of lots of this. We should do. But we do not.
She is struggling this morning to explain why she chose Second Sight, over Deloittes, to conduct an audit. The inference is that she chose Second Sight because they planned to only do a case review. The PO chose the cases. And not Deloittes because they planned to do an audit of the whole horizon system. This was in 2013.
Why should Paula Vennells be the "worst boss ever"? Her predecessor apparently failed to spot it. His predecessor failed to spot it. A whole host of people either failed to spot it-or were complicit in it.
I think that the number of cases escalated over time. As did the publicity.
We simply do not know whether the manipulations were done by the PO or by Fujitsu, or by both. It is clear that the 2019 Judge believed that Fujitsu were involved. 5 years later, there has been lots of talk. and no action.
You surely arent suggesting that Fujitsu were logging into sub postmasters accounts, and adjusting them without instruction from the PO. That would mean that Fujitsu had free reign over all the PO accounts, and could adjust any of them at a whim. Maybe Fujitsu were put under pressure by the PO, over their evidence.
The original Contract for Fujitsu was awarded by a Labour Govt. Who appointed people to run the Company, and oversee the contracts. This contract was renewed by successive Tory Govts, both appointing people to run, and then in 2013 sell, the Company. No doubt giving lots of assurances about these contracts-which turn out not to be true.
I dont see that as necessarily being relevant. The "losses" were created by the remote adjustments. In many cases the money wasnt stolen, or lost. It was still there, but not in the right place. Had the PO system been to contact the sub postmasters to adjust their accounts, it probably wouldnt have happened. The PO system was to contact Fujitsu, out of business hours, log into the sub postmasters accounts without their knowledge, and adjust them.
Being unsuccessful in 2015 cases is not the "smoking gun". Not being able to prove something beyond reasonable doubt is not the same as it not being true.
They had been unsuccessful in 5 cases prior to 2015. This is when she gave evidence to MPs, where she said they had been successful in every case. She says she didnt lie, and that she was unaware. How could she be unaware? Did she not check before giving evidence? She was the boss, shouldnt she want to be aware of any lost cases?
Fault lies with lots of people. Including the Labour and Conservative Govts and their appointees. Including Paula Vennells.
As far as the PO is concerned the buck stopped with her.
Sure. She's going to have a rough couple of days. She's had a rough 5 years. And doesn't look like she can cope.
I think she deserves it.
Various reasons for that. One of them is she is carrying the can for an awful lot of people. Including a lot of awful people. She is coming across as a very deceitful person.
I try not to watch too much of this sort of stuff. 21st Century equivalent of being hung, drawn and quartered.
What I am seeing is someone who is simultaneously being accused of being clueless and of having her finger on every relevant pulse, and being a master manipulator.
She doesn't look like a "deceitful" person to me.
She does look like she is hopelessly out of her depth. Exactly the sort of CEO who could be hoodwinked by others.
I try not to watch too much of this sort of stuff. 21st Century equivalent of being hung, drawn and quartered.
What I am seeing is someone who is simultaneously being accused of being clueless and of having her finger on every relevant pulse, and being a master manipulator.
She doesn't look like a "deceitful" person to me.
She does look like she is hopelessly out of her depth. Exactly the sort of CEO who could be hoodwinked by others.
And to my (untrained) eye a Suicide Risk.
I think she is struggling, because she is deceitful. Her memory is selective. She struggles to explain many details available in written evidence. Dont forget about the poor guy that committed suicide. He was blamed for 50k in losses, as well as responsible for another 50k taken in an armed robbery. A suicide that she tried to blame on his mental state.
I try not to watch too much of this sort of stuff. 21st Century equivalent of being hung, drawn and quartered.
What I am seeing is someone who is simultaneously being accused of being clueless and of having her finger on every relevant pulse, and being a master manipulator.
She doesn't look like a "deceitful" person to me.
She does look like she is hopelessly out of her depth. Exactly the sort of CEO who could be hoodwinked by others.
And to my (untrained) eye a Suicide Risk.
I think you are seeing this as more complicated than it should have been. The PO were firing growing numbers of people over "losses" that they incurred. Yet in many cases the money hadnt been stolen. So it was still there. I am sure I have read a figure of a million quid. So on the one hand you are firing hundreds of people for stealing money. And on the other hand you have loads of money turning up that cant be accounted for. If you arent able to put two and two together. Surely the person in charge should demand an explanation.
Why should someone go to jail for being sh1t at their job?
I've worked for lots of CEOs. And nearly all of them relied on other people doing 99% of their job for them. Secure in the knowledge that they were perfect.
A lot were rubbish. Quite a few were inveterate liars.
But none should be in prison.
These problems began before she joined. Continued after she left. Were not of her making. She was just 1 of several people who failed to grasp the extent of the problem.
On your criteria, pretty much everyone would be in prison.
Why do these CEOs get paid loads of dosh if other people are doing 99% of their job ?. What are they doing on a daily basis to justify their dosh ?. The money some of these people get is obscene.
I try not to watch too much of this sort of stuff. 21st Century equivalent of being hung, drawn and quartered.
What I am seeing is someone who is simultaneously being accused of being clueless and of having her finger on every relevant pulse, and being a master manipulator.
She doesn't look like a "deceitful" person to me.
She does look like she is hopelessly out of her depth. Exactly the sort of CEO who could be hoodwinked by others.
And to my (untrained) eye a Suicide Risk.
I think you are seeing this as more complicated than it should have been. The PO were firing growing numbers of people over "losses" that they incurred. Yet in many cases the money hadnt been stolen. So it was still there. I am sure I have read a figure of a million quid. So on the one hand you are firing hundreds of people for stealing money. And on the other hand you have loads of money turning up that cant be accounted for. If you arent able to put two and two together. Surely the person in charge should demand an explanation.
Sure it isn't you that isn't seeing something as simple? When it self-evidently is not.
What do you mean by the money being "there"? If it really was that simple, an Auditor or Accountant would have flagged it up. Decades ago. To about 20 people. Many of which would have created a bigger record.
Auditors aren't known for their dazzling interpersonal skills. But their job is exactly putting 2 and 2 together. It's what they do.
It was hidden by a certain number of still unknown people. From either the Post Office. Or Fujitsu. And it was concealed from a larger Group of people. Including at least 3 Governments.
Comments
Martin Griffiths, 59, who took his own life in 2013 after he was falsely suspected of stealing money from a Post Office in Ellesmere Port
Former Royal Mail boss Dame Moya Greene told ex-Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells 'I can't now support you' in text messages shown to the Horizon IT Inquiry
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/paula-vennells-bombshell-text-messages-32866867
Paula Vennells arrived at the Post Office Inquiry a former chief executive, a former Church of England lay preacher and an ex-CBE, with only her reputation, and perhaps her liberty, left to defend.
Having avoided scrutiny for nearly nine years, during which time the Post Office she ran has been revealed as deceitful, vindictive and shambolic, she should have expected nothing less.
Inside she faced an audience of around 150 sub-postmasters, the toughest of crowds for the person ultimately responsible for sending many of them to jail for crimes they didn't commit.
After a reminder from the inquiry chair Sir Wyn Williams about her right to avoid self-incrimination, her opening gambit was an apology.
She said sorry to the sub-postmasters and families whose lives had been ruined. She said sorry specifically to Mr Bates and Lord Arbuthnot, their parliamentary champion, and the investigators from Second Sight, who exposed the Post Office's failings on her behalf and she shut down for their trouble.
The respite lasted as long as it took Jason Beer KC to clear his throat. The lead counsel to the inquiry's principal weapon was irony and it was devastating, the more so for apparently being lost on Ms Vennells.
"Are you the unluckiest chief executive in history?" he asked.
After a pause, the first of many, she replied: "One of my reflections on all of this is that I was too trusting."
That captured her fundamental defence, which is that during 12 years at the Post Office, seven of them as chief executive, she was entirely unaware of the multiple issues that led to the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history.
After listing the multiple things she claims in her 775-page witness statement not to have known, from bugs in the Horizon computer system to instructions to shred documents, Mr Beer asked: "Was there a conspiracy, lasting 12 years, involving different people over time to deny you documents and falsely reassure?"
After careful consideration she concluded conspiracy might be going too far: "My deep sorrow is that individuals, myself included, made mistakes, didn't see things, didn't hear things."
Throughout the hearing she claimed not to have been aware of fundamental issues. For example, she said she did not know the Post Office could investigate and prosecute its staff, a power it has had since the 17th century, until she became chief executive.
When confronted with clear evidence she ought to have been aware of issues, in the form of emails and documents she admitted to sending and receiving, she claimed not to have understood their true meaning at the time.
Several times she was moved to tears. More frequently she was stunned into silence by questions, struggling to summon answers when trapped by the contradictions in her evidence.
The sub-postmasters, meanwhile, struggled to contain their disdain, hollow laughter greeting several answers.
There was no laughter when she was challenged about the suicide of sub-postmaster Martin Griffiths, and an email in which she appeared to attribute it to his mental health, rather than the actions of Post Office investigators who were pursuing him.
"Sorry is not an adequate word, I am just very sorry that Mr Griffiths is not here today," she said.
She has two more days in the witness stand, and on this evidence, nowhere to go.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/to-be-frank-the-day-went-horribly-for-paula-vennells/ar-BB1mRLdL?ocid=BingNewsSerp#fullscreen
Claim: Ms Vennells made false statement to MPs in 2015
Ms Vennells admitted that she made a false statement to MPs in 2015 – but she claimed she did not realise she was lying.
She broke down in tears mid-evidence as she apologised for telling MPs the Post Office was successful in every court case against sub-postmasters.
Ms Vennells told parliamentarians that every Post Office prosecution involving Horizon had been successful, according to minutes shown to the inquiry, which was untrue in five cases where postmasters had won, or been acquitted at trial.
As she answered, she appeared to tear up: “I fully accept now that Post Office knew…I’m incredibly sorry that that happened to those people and to so many others.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/paula-vennells-claims-she-was-unaware-of-horizon-bugs-fact-checked/ar-BB1mTody?ocid=BingNewsSerp#fullscreen
Paula Vennells is just the scapegoat. While the people who actually misled people are treated as though they had done nothing wrong.
The case that blew everything apart was in 2019. Let's look briefly at some of the facts relating to that. The Judge found that Fujitsu had given "wholly unsatisfactory evidence". That there had been a "lack of accuracy on the part of Fujitsu witnesses in their evidence", and that they had pressurised the UK Govt to sign off the controversial and faulty IT system that, as a result of its faulty operation, resulted in numerous UK postmasters being accused falsely...
Paula Vennells did not commit the fraud-she failed to spot the people who had. While it is conveniently ignored by the MP lynch mob that the Post Office was a public body when all this started. Funny how it is a Civil Servant involved in the Privatisation itself who is currently throwing her under the bus in relation to "Trust".
Paula Vennells will, in all probability, never work again. Tainted by what others did on her watch. I'd be a lot happier about that if the actual wrongdoers were being punished.
Fujitsu? Since 2019, received more than £3.4 Billion from the Govt or, more accurately, the Taxpayer.
Biggest Contract? They run various Computer Systems for HMRC. So, for example, when HMRC sit on information relating to Cliff-Edge Benefit payments, want to take a wild guess as to which Company is helping keep that information from people being hounded now?
Lead campaigner and former subpostmaster Alan Bates has said he has “no sympathy” for Paula Vennells after she broke down twice during her first day of evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry.
Mr Bates said he met “senior” Metropolitan Police staff on Wednesday morning to discuss possible prosecutions following the Post Office Horizon scandal.
He said: “They certainly are going to investigate, I’ve had that assurance and I think the group (of subpostmasters) needs that as an assurance and it’s something that we’ve never been certain of until today.”
During her evidence to the probe, Ms Vennells stopped mid-answer and reached for a tissue as she was grilled about why she had provided a false statement to MPs that the Post Office had been successful in every case against subpostmasters.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/alan-bates-paula-vennells-post-office-inquiry-horizon-b1159626.html#:~:text=Lead campaigner and former subpostmaster Alan Bates has,possible prosecutions following the Post Office Horizon scandal.
Heard anything about the Govt's behaviour in awarding the contract? Heard anything about the Govt's involvement in the Sale of the Company while no doubt denying the rumours about the computer contracts not being safe? Heard anything about the Govt cancelling the Contracts?
25 years of wrongdoing. 5 years of provable wrongdoing. No action.
I'm reminded of Ghislaine Maxwell. Where a bunch of men organised another bunch of men to take advantage of underage girls. And the only person in prison is the girlfriend of 1 of the men. While no-one looks at the actual perpetrators
Although the PO ruined many peoples lives.
Their continued denials that remote access was possible, and regularly occurred, surely played a huge part in their convictions.
She admitted to lying to MPs in 2015.
The PO investigated, and pursued the prosecutions.
I think we are far from the end of this.
25 years of wrongdoing. 5 years of proof. £3.4 Billion of reward.
Although the PO ruined many peoples lives.
They did. No action against the people who were involved. Just v the person who didn't spot it
Their continued denials that remote access was possible, and regularly occurred, surely played a huge part in their convictions.
Whose denials? I see no action against the people who were remotely accessing.
She admitted to lying to MPs in 2015.
No. She has admitted to giving info that she now knows was false. Not that she knew was false in 2015
The PO investigated, and pursued the prosecutions.
I think we are far from the end of this.
I'm sure you are right. But all the noise is focused away from the actual wrongdoers.
The person who didnt spot it was in charge, and was either the worst boss ever, or is an out and out liar, or both.
Surely the person in charge has a duty to know what is going on.
The PO was instructing Fujitsu to remote access the accounts, and make adjustments, without the knowledge of the sub postmasters.
This was how the shortages were created.
Yet the PO maintained that remote access was not possible.
This aspect must have been crucial in getting the convictions.
The sub postmasters had a log in, which they believed nobody else could access.
Fujitsu didnt make adjustments off their own bat.
I think that who the police may take action against, if anybody, has yet to be decided.
So you dont think that she was aware that they had been unsuccessful in 5 cases in 2015?
The PO was denying that remote access was possible, while they were instructing Fujitsu to do so.
The alternative is that Fujitsu were able to amend all the accounts at their leisure.
Mayhem.
I think she has a tough couple of days to come.
Why should Paula Vennells be the "worst boss ever"? Her predecessor apparently failed to spot it. His predecessor failed to spot it. A whole host of people either failed to spot it-or were complicit in it.
We simply do not know whether the manipulations were done by the PO or by Fujitsu, or by both. It is clear that the 2019 Judge believed that Fujitsu were involved. 5 years later, there has been lots of talk. and no action.
The original Contract for Fujitsu was awarded by a Labour Govt. Who appointed people to run the Company, and oversee the contracts. This contract was renewed by successive Tory Govts, both appointing people to run, and then in 2013 sell, the Company. No doubt giving lots of assurances about these contracts-which turn out not to be true.
Being unsuccessful in 2015 cases is not the "smoking gun". Not being able to prove something beyond reasonable doubt is not the same as it not being true.
Fault lies with lots of people. Including the Labour and Conservative Govts and their appointees. Including Paula Vennells.
Sure. She's going to have a rough couple of days. She's had a rough 5 years. And doesn't look like she can cope.
Various reasons for that. One of them is she is carrying the can for an awful lot of people. Including a lot of awful people.
What I am seeing is someone who is simultaneously being accused of being clueless and of having her finger on every relevant pulse, and being a master manipulator.
She doesn't look like a "deceitful" person to me.
She does look like she is hopelessly out of her depth. Exactly the sort of CEO who could be hoodwinked by others.
And to my (untrained) eye a Suicide Risk.
Her memory is selective.
She struggles to explain many details available in written evidence.
Dont forget about the poor guy that committed suicide.
He was blamed for 50k in losses, as well as responsible for another 50k taken in an armed robbery.
A suicide that she tried to blame on his mental state.
The PO were firing growing numbers of people over "losses" that they incurred.
Yet in many cases the money hadnt been stolen.
So it was still there.
I am sure I have read a figure of a million quid.
So on the one hand you are firing hundreds of people for stealing money.
And on the other hand you have loads of money turning up that cant be accounted for.
If you arent able to put two and two together.
Surely the person in charge should demand an explanation.
What are they doing on a daily basis to justify their dosh ?.
The money some of these people get is obscene.
What do you mean by the money being "there"? If it really was that simple, an Auditor or Accountant would have flagged it up. Decades ago. To about 20 people. Many of which would have created a bigger record.
Auditors aren't known for their dazzling interpersonal skills. But their job is exactly putting 2 and 2 together. It's what they do.
It was hidden by a certain number of still unknown people. From either the Post Office. Or Fujitsu. And it was concealed from a larger Group of people. Including at least 3 Governments.