It's true that for many of us - especially the elder generations - find "trans" stuff difficult to understand, but that's no reason to take against them. We should all be free to be ourselves, & live the lives we want to.
It's true that for many of us - especially the elder generations - find "trans" stuff difficult to understand, but that's no reason to take against them. We should all be free to be ourselves, & live the lives we want to.
US Presidential Election Winner Donald Trump 4/7 Kamala Harris 7/4
I've been playing a bit of "Live" poker these last few weeks at DTD in Nottingham. I used to be an every night regular there until I virtually quit UK Live Poker when I started working for Sky.
So I know a few of the regular faces, but most of the clientele are strangers to me.
Amongst the new faces I did not recognize was a person who I estimate to be around 50 years old. It's clearly a man, but has their hair long & permed, female style, wears full female make up, & wearing an off-the-shoulder "low cut" dress, & carried a handbag.
I'm in my late seventies, & this sort of thing is a novelty to me, & I admit, I could not stop staring at him or her.
Then he/she spoke to me - just a friendly, off-hand comment about the particular themed baseball hat I was wearing.
That broke the ice, & we were soon chatting like long-lost buddies. And it really helped me get mentally comfortable with the situation.
We all just need to make a little effort to understand each other. I bet most of those who spend all day bellyaching about trans people have never made the effort to get to know them, to chat with them, to maybe help put them at ease in a world which is not always welcoming to those who live their lives differently to us.
It's similar with foreign people, especially Asians & Muslims, and even on this tiny little Forum, we clearly have one or two Members who take every opportunity they can to show them in a negative light. Well go play some Live poker, there's a high % of Asians who play, get to know them, chat with them, & suddenly you'll realise they are just regular people, like you & me.
The amount of hate (I SO loathe that word) in this world is beyond sad.
I've been playing a bit of "Live" poker these last few weeks at DTD in Nottingham. I used to be an every night regular there until I virtually quit UK Live Poker when I started working for Sky.
So I know a few of the regular faces, but most of the clientele are strangers to me.
Amongst the new faces I did not recognize was a person who I estimate to be around 50 years old. It's clearly a man, but has their hair long & permed, female style, wears full female make up, & wearing an off-the-shoulder "low cut" dress, & carried a handbag.
I'm in my late seventies, & this sort of thing is a novelty to me, & I admit, I could not stop staring at him or her.
Then he/she spoke to me - just a friendly, off-hand comment about the particular themed baseball hat I was wearing.
That broke the ice, & we were soon chatting like long-lost buddies. And it really helped me get mentally comfortable with the situation.
We all just need to make a little effort to understand each other. I bet most of those who spend all day bellyaching about trans people have never made the effort to get to know them, to chat with them, to maybe help put them at ease in a world which is not always welcoming to those who live their lives differently to us.
It's similar with foreign people, especially Asians & Muslims, and even on this tiny little Forum, we clearly have one or two Members who take every opportunity they can to show them in a negative light. Well go play some Live poker, there's a high % of Asians who play, get to know them, chat with them, & suddenly you'll realise they are just regular people, like you & me.
The amount of hate (I SO loathe that word) in this world is beyond sad.
I think we have come a long way in this country during my lifetime. There was a time when No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs, signs were common place in hotels, and B&Bs. Being gay was legalised. We obviously still have a long way to go. The internet has been responsible for many good things, but it has allowed people with the most radical, and biased views to get in contact with each other. It seems that the Tommy Robinson stuff got 44 million views on X.
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
It IS a problem, & a particularly difficult one to solve satisfactorily. However.... it is NOT a reason to be negative about trans people or the world of LGBTQ generally. We need to solve these problems, not use them as weapons of negativity.
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
I think that trans people should be treated with courtesy, and respect, the same as everybody else. I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports. No exceptions. If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue. You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport. However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only. The same rule should apply in these races.
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
I think that trans people should be treated with courtesy, and respect, the same as everybody else. I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports. No exceptions. If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue. You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport. However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only. The same rule should apply in these races.
"No exceptions" is just impractical.
Lots of people for example are born intersex-part Arthur, part Martha.
I see the argument that (for example) a Castor Semenya should not be winning Olympic titles.
But are you seriously telling me that, when she was 6 years old, you both believe
(1) She should not have been allowed to play football with the other 6-yr-old girls and (2) You are treating her with courtesy and respect by excluding her from all sport
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
I think that trans people should be treated with courtesy, and respect, the same as everybody else. I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports. No exceptions. If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue. You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport. However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only. The same rule should apply in these races.
"No exceptions" is just impractical.
Lots of people for example are born intersex-part Arthur, part Martha.
Lots?
I see the argument that (for example) a Castor Semenya should not be winning Olympic titles.
But are you seriously telling me that, when she was 6 years old, you both believe
(1) She should not have been allowed to play football with the other 6-yr-old girls and (2) You are treating her with courtesy and respect by excluding her from all sport
Life really isn't that simple.
What I said was that anyone that was born a man should be excluded from womens sports. A seperate decision would have to be made about those born intersex. I also believe that someone that was born a man should not end up in a womens prison.
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
I think that trans people should be treated with courtesy, and respect, the same as everybody else. I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports. No exceptions. If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue. You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport. However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only. The same rule should apply in these races.
"No exceptions" is just impractical.
Lots of people for example are born intersex-part Arthur, part Martha.
Lots?
I see the argument that (for example) a Castor Semenya should not be winning Olympic titles.
But are you seriously telling me that, when she was 6 years old, you both believe
(1) She should not have been allowed to play football with the other 6-yr-old girls and (2) You are treating her with courtesy and respect by excluding her from all sport
Life really isn't that simple.
What I said was that anyone that was born a man should be excluded from womens sports. A seperate decision would have to be made about those born intersex. I also believe that someone that was born a man should not end up in a womens prison.
You have such simple answers. To such complex questions.
I don't pretend there is an easy answer. As an example, some male rapist who decides at the last minute they are a Woman? I'm in total agreement.
Now. What about the person who was born a man. Sent to prison for non-sexual offences. Who has fully transitioned to being a woman. 20 years ago. Right down to the full sex change operation. Every outward appearance as a Woman. And the body of a Woman. You think that person should be in a men's prison?
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
I think that trans people should be treated with courtesy, and respect, the same as everybody else. I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports. No exceptions. If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue. You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport. However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only. The same rule should apply in these races.
"No exceptions" is just impractical.
Lots of people for example are born intersex-part Arthur, part Martha.
Lots?
I see the argument that (for example) a Castor Semenya should not be winning Olympic titles.
But are you seriously telling me that, when she was 6 years old, you both believe
(1) She should not have been allowed to play football with the other 6-yr-old girls and (2) You are treating her with courtesy and respect by excluding her from all sport
Life really isn't that simple.
What I said was that anyone that was born a man should be excluded from womens sports. A seperate decision would have to be made about those born intersex. I also believe that someone that was born a man should not end up in a womens prison.
You have such simple answers. To such complex questions.
I don't pretend there is an easy answer. As an example, some male rapist who decides at the last minute they are a Woman? I'm in total agreement.
Now. What about the person who was born a man. Sent to prison for non-sexual offences. Who has fully transitioned to being a woman. 20 years ago. Right down to the full sex change operation. Every outward appearance as a Woman. And the body of a Woman. You think that person should be in a men's prison?
Sorry, another simple answer, that person should be in a womans prison, but not allowed to compete in womens sports.
When I coached rugby in the mini and Junior section of my local club we were inclusive and mixed sexes through both the touch rugby and tag/flag rugby stages.
Once we began semi contact rugby we kept it mixed with parental consent, however, once we reached full contact and full tackling we were obliged to exclude females from the teams which then became exclusively boys/male teams. Thhis would be about 11/12 years of age or Year 6 school year
This was not something that we as coaches wanted to do but the insurance meant that we be in breach of the policies if we continued. Also by this stage there is a definate physical difference in rugby players, that is perhaps not so obvious at the same age in other sports. Yes there were some capable girls, but by 13yo most of the lads are big, strong and growing almost weekly.
Womens rugby is a brilliant game, fast, tough, skillful and brutal Mens rugby is a brilliant game, fast, tough, skillful and brutal
Should the game be mixed No.
Should players who have fully transitioned be allowed to switch. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes at community club level. So your local club.
At 1st class level, no . The disparity in size ,speed and ferocity makes it a tragedy in waiting and no sport needs that.
Interesting that you bring up Rugby. Got me thinking.
My position on Sport (both mixed and Trans) is broadly similar to yours. Amateur, yes. Professional no. But there may be Sports where that would still be dangerous.
Rugby shows how vital it is to adjust with changing times. Particularly Union. Back when it was an amateur game, it was a pretty safe sport. That no longer holds true. Once it became Professional, attracting big money and full-time athletes, it ceased being a safe sport. There are massive issues in relation to long-term health conditions
Today's Rugby players are far fitter, and more importantly, far bigger than they were even 30 years ago. The 8 Forwards in a Major Rugby team may be a combined weight of 1000kg. 20+ stone forwards are not uncommon-and that is often 20 stone of muscle.
I'm all for inclusivity in Amateur Sport. But we need to be very careful in relation to Rugby.
Think it is some time since I posted my thoughts on this subject, so here is a short version:-
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance 2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits 3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
I think that trans people should be treated with courtesy, and respect, the same as everybody else. I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports. No exceptions. If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue. You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport. However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only. The same rule should apply in these races.
"No exceptions" is just impractical.
Lots of people for example are born intersex-part Arthur, part Martha.
I see the argument that (for example) a Castor Semenya should not be winning Olympic titles.
But are you seriously telling me that, when she was 6 years old, you both believe
(1) She should not have been allowed to play football with the other 6-yr-old girls and (2) You are treating her with courtesy and respect by excluding her from all sport
Life really isn't that simple.
"Lots" in this instance appears to be around 1.7%. I wouldnt stop anyone playing sport, but I would stop some competing. A man that remains intact, and identifies as a woman, should not be allowed to compete in womens sport, and should be in a mans prison. A man that identifies as a woman, and has had the full operation, should be in a womans prison, but not allowed to compete in sport as a woman. Sport should be fair.
Comments
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One wonders how much lower he can sink.
It's true that for many of us - especially the elder generations - find "trans" stuff difficult to understand, but that's no reason to take against them. We should all be free to be ourselves, & live the lives we want to.
Donald Trump
4/7
Kamala Harris
7/4
A little anecdote here.
I've been playing a bit of "Live" poker these last few weeks at DTD in Nottingham. I used to be an every night regular there until I virtually quit UK Live Poker when I started working for Sky.
So I know a few of the regular faces, but most of the clientele are strangers to me.
Amongst the new faces I did not recognize was a person who I estimate to be around 50 years old. It's clearly a man, but has their hair long & permed, female style, wears full female make up, & wearing an off-the-shoulder "low cut" dress, & carried a handbag.
I'm in my late seventies, & this sort of thing is a novelty to me, & I admit, I could not stop staring at him or her.
Then he/she spoke to me - just a friendly, off-hand comment about the particular themed baseball hat I was wearing.
That broke the ice, & we were soon chatting like long-lost buddies. And it really helped me get mentally comfortable with the situation.
We all just need to make a little effort to understand each other. I bet most of those who spend all day bellyaching about trans people have never made the effort to get to know them, to chat with them, to maybe help put them at ease in a world which is not always welcoming to those who live their lives differently to us.
It's similar with foreign people, especially Asians & Muslims, and even on this tiny little Forum, we clearly have one or two Members who take every opportunity they can to show them in a negative light. Well go play some Live poker, there's a high % of Asians who play, get to know them, chat with them, & suddenly you'll realise they are just regular people, like you & me.
The amount of hate (I SO loathe that word) in this world is beyond sad.
There was a time when No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs, signs were common place in hotels, and B&Bs.
Being gay was legalised.
We obviously still have a long way to go.
The internet has been responsible for many good things, but it has allowed people with the most radical, and biased views to get in contact with each other.
It seems that the Tommy Robinson stuff got 44 million views on X.
https://nypost.com/2024/10/23/opinion/un-report-proves-trans-athletes-in-womens-sports-is-a-problem/
1. There are some sports where men and women compete on an equal footing anyway. Horse racing, various equestrian sports, etc. For those sports, should not be of any relevance
2. As far as amateur sport is concerned, any possible harm is outweighed by the benefits
3. But when it is a professional sport, with clear advantages to be being born male, then the reverse is true. If there is a significant advantage, that cannot be truly nullified, then I believe certain Trans athletes should not be allowed to compete in Women's professional sport. Not because they should not be accepted as Women-just not allowed to earn substantial money from Women's sport
Good Post.
It IS a problem, & a particularly difficult one to solve satisfactorily. However.... it is NOT a reason to be negative about trans people or the world of LGBTQ generally. We need to solve these problems, not use them as weapons of negativity.
I am very clear in that anyone born a man should not be able to compete in womens sports.
No exceptions.
If you make exceptions. I think you just cloud the issue.
You use horse racing as an example, but that is not specifically a male of female sport.
However there are a limited number of races that are open to women only.
The same rule should apply in these races.
Lots of people for example are born intersex-part Arthur, part Martha.
I see the argument that (for example) a Castor Semenya should not be winning Olympic titles.
But are you seriously telling me that, when she was 6 years old, you both believe
(1) She should not have been allowed to play football with the other 6-yr-old girls and
(2) You are treating her with courtesy and respect by excluding her from all sport
Life really isn't that simple.
A seperate decision would have to be made about those born intersex.
I also believe that someone that was born a man should not end up in a womens prison.
I don't pretend there is an easy answer. As an example, some male rapist who decides at the last minute they are a Woman? I'm in total agreement.
Now. What about the person who was born a man. Sent to prison for non-sexual offences. Who has fully transitioned to being a woman. 20 years ago. Right down to the full sex change operation. Every outward appearance as a Woman. And the body of a Woman. You think that person should be in a men's prison?
When I coached rugby in the mini and Junior section of my local club we were inclusive and mixed sexes through both the touch rugby and tag/flag rugby stages.
Once we began semi contact rugby we kept it mixed with parental consent, however, once we reached full contact and full tackling we were obliged to exclude females from the teams which then became exclusively boys/male teams. Thhis would be about 11/12 years of age or Year 6 school year
This was not something that we as coaches wanted to do but the insurance meant that we be in breach of the policies if we continued. Also by this stage there is a definate physical difference in rugby players, that is perhaps not so obvious at the same age in other sports. Yes there were some capable girls, but by 13yo most of the lads are big, strong and growing almost weekly.
Womens rugby is a brilliant game, fast, tough, skillful and brutal
Mens rugby is a brilliant game, fast, tough, skillful and brutal
Should the game be mixed No.
Should players who have fully transitioned be allowed to switch. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes at community club level. So your local club.
At 1st class level, no
.
The disparity in size ,speed and ferocity makes it a tragedy in waiting and no sport needs that.
My position on Sport (both mixed and Trans) is broadly similar to yours. Amateur, yes. Professional no. But there may be Sports where that would still be dangerous.
Rugby shows how vital it is to adjust with changing times. Particularly Union. Back when it was an amateur game, it was a pretty safe sport. That no longer holds true. Once it became Professional, attracting big money and full-time athletes, it ceased being a safe sport. There are massive issues in relation to long-term health conditions
Today's Rugby players are far fitter, and more importantly, far bigger than they were even 30 years ago. The 8 Forwards in a Major Rugby team may be a combined weight of 1000kg. 20+ stone forwards are not uncommon-and that is often 20 stone of muscle.
I'm all for inclusivity in Amateur Sport. But we need to be very careful in relation to Rugby.
I wouldnt stop anyone playing sport, but I would stop some competing.
A man that remains intact, and identifies as a woman, should not be allowed to compete in womens sport, and should be in a mans prison.
A man that identifies as a woman, and has had the full operation, should be in a womans prison, but not allowed to compete in sport as a woman.
Sport should be fair.