Grim spot in the Sunday Major

MynaFrett

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
loololollo	Small blind		60.00	60.00	6440.00
Hoff92	Big blind		120.00	180.00	20982.50
	Your hole cards	Q J
HAYSIE	Fold
ZORRO55	Call		120.00	300.00	10077.50
MynaFrett	Raise		360.00	660.00	8715.00
myjokras00	Fold
loololollo	Fold
Hoff92	Fold
ZORRO55	Call		240.00	900.00	9837.50
Flop
		A 2 Q
ZORRO55	Check
MynaFrett	Bet		240.00	1140.00	8475.00
ZORRO55	Raise		720.00	1860.00	9117.50
MynaFrett	Call		480.00	2340.00	7995.00
Turn
		3
ZORRO55	Bet		480.00	2820.00	8637.50
MynaFrett	Raise		1920.00	4740.00	6075.00
ZORRO55	Call		1440.00	6180.00	7197.50
River
		A
ZORRO55	All-in		7197.50	13377.50	0.00
MynaFrett	Fold
ZORRO55	Muck
ZORRO55	Win		6180.00		6180.00
ZORRO55	Return		7197.50	0.00	13377.50

MynaFrett

Managed to settle down and chip up a bit after that hand but two hands against @UnEuropean did for me in the end. The second/bust out hand was a trivial 15bb reshove with AJo vs their open (from LJ but effectively HJ as the table was still 5 handed after a bust) but this is the one that crippled me just before that -

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
ZORRO55	Big blind		250.00	250.00	10602.50
	Your hole cards	Q A
MynaFrett	Raise		500.00	750.00	9405.00
myjokras00	Fold
UnEuropean	Call		500.00	1250.00	26175.00
Hoff92	Fold
ZORRO55	Fold
Flop
		A 5 3
MynaFrett	Check
UnEuropean	Check
Turn
		7
MynaFrett	Bet		1000.00	2250.00	8405.00
UnEuropean	Call		1000.00	3250.00	25175.00
River
		2
MynaFrett	Check
UnEuropean	Bet		2437.50	5687.50	22737.50
MynaFrett	Call		2437.50	8125.00	5967.50
UnEuropean	Show	4 4
MynaFrett	Show	Q A
UnEuropean	Win	Straight to the 5	8125.00		30862.50

Anyone have any thoughts they'd like to share about this hand and/or the QJs hand above?

Mohican

QJ hand I'm not sure. You're either miles ahead to Ax or behind to bigger flush or FH. Flip a coin time? AQ I think whatever you raise pre you're getting a call. Not C betting flop is a mistake. After that you might lose chips.

Mohican

QJ your also beating a better flush, 10 9/x clubs very likely here.

Essexphil

Mohican said:

QJ your also beating a better flush, 10 9/x clubs very likely here.

I think you are only beating a bluff. What hands are shoving there?

1. 5c4c
2. AA
3. AQ
4. A3
5. A2
6. QQ
7. 33
8. 22
9. Kcxc
10. Bluff

Unless you strongly believe the villain is capable of shoving a pure bluff on a board that wet, it's a fold. It is practically screaming House or better.

Betting with a lower Flush? Possibly. But shoving? Weaker hands fold. Almost all stronger hands call.

I'm not saying I'd never shove the 13th or 14th nuts. But I am saying I'd never shove the 13th nuts with the aim of getting a call from a weaker hand...

Mohican

Essexphil said:

Mohican said:

QJ your also beating a better flush, 10 9/x clubs very likely here.

I think you are only beating a bluff. What hands are shoving there?

1. 5c4c
2. AA
3. AQ
4. A3
5. A2
6. QQ
7. 33
8. 22
9. Kcxc
10. Bluff

Unless you strongly believe the villain is capable of shoving a pure bluff on a board that wet, it's a fold. It is practically screaming House or better.

Betting with a lower Flush? Possibly. But shoving? Weaker hands fold. Almost all stronger hands call.

Don't think it's a bluff. should've said 10 9 clubs is a possibility. It's deffo a made hand and a very polarising shove. Wouldn't like to be in that spot that's for sure.

Essexphil

Mohican said:

Essexphil said:

Mohican said:

QJ your also beating a better flush, 10 9/x clubs very likely here.

I think you are only beating a bluff. What hands are shoving there?

1. 5c4c
2. AA
3. AQ
4. A3
5. A2
6. QQ
7. 33
8. 22
9. Kcxc
10. Bluff

Unless you strongly believe the villain is capable of shoving a pure bluff on a board that wet, it's a fold. It is practically screaming House or better.

Betting with a lower Flush? Possibly. But shoving? Weaker hands fold. Almost all stronger hands call.

Don't think it's a bluff. should've said 10 9 clubs is a possibility. It's deffo a made hand and a very polarising shove. Wouldn't like to be in that spot that's for sure.

That's the beauty of poker.

We all see things differently.

For me, I would never shove with a weak made hand there. Betting 2.5k-3k or check-calling makes far more sense with 10cxc. It's the 13th nuts. A bluff-catcher at best.

Whereas I might shove with air.

Mohican

Essexphil said:

Mohican said:

Essexphil said:

Mohican said:

QJ your also beating a better flush, 10 9/x clubs very likely here.

I think you are only beating a bluff. What hands are shoving there?

1. 5c4c
2. AA
3. AQ
4. A3
5. A2
6. QQ
7. 33
8. 22
9. Kcxc
10. Bluff

Unless you strongly believe the villain is capable of shoving a pure bluff on a board that wet, it's a fold. It is practically screaming House or better.

Betting with a lower Flush? Possibly. But shoving? Weaker hands fold. Almost all stronger hands call.

Don't think it's a bluff. should've said 10 9 clubs is a possibility. It's deffo a made hand and a very polarising shove. Wouldn't like to be in that spot that's for sure.

That's the beauty of poker.

We all see things differently.

For me, I would never shove with a weak made hand there. Betting 2.5k-3k or check-calling makes far more sense with 10cxc. It's the 13th nuts. A bluff-catcher at best.

Whereas I might shove with air.

Shoving with air I have done and it's a good spot to do it. With the 15 seconds to make my mind up in game I'm more likely to fold with some crying calls getting made depending on my mood.lol I think most of the time a lot of the hands we had beaten on the turn got there. Poker sucks sometimes.

JammyFker

@MynaFrett If you are willing to play QJs like this firstly maybe beef up your isolation bet if this is your objective

When we hit a pretty carlsberg flop for this sort of hand, I would ask why would you bet so small - is it to induce bluffs cause if you want to bet for value - versus perhaps a weaker type of player then we just go big to create a pot when we do hit our flush. Personally when I bet what you have and get raised I may just juice up the pot on flop to make it easy to get in a lot of our stack on turns when we improve

As played once again on turn I just pile in chips

River leaves us guessing badly, and just re-iterates we have made mistakes on previous streets as we should really know what we are going to do before it happens in most situations so we have a clear plan in the hand for turn and river!

Hope that makes sense

MynaFrett

@JammyFker some great points there, thanks for taking the time to share. Same goes to @Essexphil and @Mohican. I will pick up on all of the points made so far at some time either this evening or tomorrow.