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4,000 homeless families barred from social housing… because they’re in debt

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    The illegality was concealed in the Secret Trust.

    Kids provided the money for the Right to Buy. Which was not divulged. They did this for a variety of reasons-from greed, to wanting to get on the housing ladder themselves. So District Land Registry tells 1 story. And the Trust another.

    I dealt with the aftermath of several of these. Because life throws up problems.

    From rows between kids when only some were in on the deal. To whether the elderly person should be prevented going into a Care Home within the 5 years. To the cost of Windows in a block of flats (because a Leaseholder has financial responsibilities that a Tenant does not)-difficult to explain to the well-meaning Parent that they have to find £10,000.

    There were plenty of Financial Advisers, Mortgage Brokers and Solicitors who knew fine well what was going on, and made considerable profits themselves. And, afaik, not a single one ever got into trouble for it. Because £hundreds of millions of discounts were fraudulently obtained.

    In relation to your comment that "they (the Local Authorities) should have built more with the proceeds". Of course they should. But Thatcher intervened and expressly forbade this. Councils would have been committing a Criminal Offence if they did.

    How could solicitors be involved in illegality?

    If I remember rightly the funds from the proceeds were frozen.
    There are crooked solicitors. And there are ones who deliberately didn't delve too deeply. And those that were a bit thick.

    Don't understand your point about funds being frozen.
    The government forced councils to freeze the funds from the receipts, they werent allowed to spend them on anything.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,767
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    The illegality was concealed in the Secret Trust.

    Kids provided the money for the Right to Buy. Which was not divulged. They did this for a variety of reasons-from greed, to wanting to get on the housing ladder themselves. So District Land Registry tells 1 story. And the Trust another.

    I dealt with the aftermath of several of these. Because life throws up problems.

    From rows between kids when only some were in on the deal. To whether the elderly person should be prevented going into a Care Home within the 5 years. To the cost of Windows in a block of flats (because a Leaseholder has financial responsibilities that a Tenant does not)-difficult to explain to the well-meaning Parent that they have to find £10,000.

    There were plenty of Financial Advisers, Mortgage Brokers and Solicitors who knew fine well what was going on, and made considerable profits themselves. And, afaik, not a single one ever got into trouble for it. Because £hundreds of millions of discounts were fraudulently obtained.

    In relation to your comment that "they (the Local Authorities) should have built more with the proceeds". Of course they should. But Thatcher intervened and expressly forbade this. Councils would have been committing a Criminal Offence if they did.

    How could solicitors be involved in illegality?

    If I remember rightly the funds from the proceeds were frozen.
    There are crooked solicitors. And there are ones who deliberately didn't delve too deeply. And those that were a bit thick.

    Don't understand your point about funds being frozen.
    The government forced councils to freeze the funds from the receipts, they werent allowed to spend them on anything.
    Fair enough. Thought you were referring to the sale proceeds for the buyers.

    In reality, the money you refer to was spent. Simply because the amount of funding provided by Central Govt to Local Govt dropped dramatically in the 1980s. If memory serves me, it halved.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    The illegality was concealed in the Secret Trust.

    Kids provided the money for the Right to Buy. Which was not divulged. They did this for a variety of reasons-from greed, to wanting to get on the housing ladder themselves. So District Land Registry tells 1 story. And the Trust another.

    I dealt with the aftermath of several of these. Because life throws up problems.

    From rows between kids when only some were in on the deal. To whether the elderly person should be prevented going into a Care Home within the 5 years. To the cost of Windows in a block of flats (because a Leaseholder has financial responsibilities that a Tenant does not)-difficult to explain to the well-meaning Parent that they have to find £10,000.

    There were plenty of Financial Advisers, Mortgage Brokers and Solicitors who knew fine well what was going on, and made considerable profits themselves. And, afaik, not a single one ever got into trouble for it. Because £hundreds of millions of discounts were fraudulently obtained.

    In relation to your comment that "they (the Local Authorities) should have built more with the proceeds". Of course they should. But Thatcher intervened and expressly forbade this. Councils would have been committing a Criminal Offence if they did.

    How could solicitors be involved in illegality?

    If I remember rightly the funds from the proceeds were frozen.
    There are crooked solicitors. And there are ones who deliberately didn't delve too deeply. And those that were a bit thick.

    Don't understand your point about funds being frozen.
    The government forced councils to freeze the funds from the receipts, they werent allowed to spend them on anything.
    Fair enough. Thought you were referring to the sale proceeds for the buyers.

    In reality, the money you refer to was spent. Simply because the amount of funding provided by Central Govt to Local Govt dropped dramatically in the 1980s. If memory serves me, it halved.
    Ok.
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    There is still a provision to have rent paid direct to the landlord. I know this becau/se my son has taken that option on his accomodation although I think this is only applicable with Council houses and social housing.

    Once again though things like this highlight how flawed thr system is. Denying the homeless accomodation due to debt is like denying an addict rehab because they have a drug / drink habbit.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,457
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807

    There is still a provision to have rent paid direct to the landlord. I know this becau/se my son has taken that option on his accomodation although I think this is only applicable with Council houses and social housing.

    Once again though things like this highlight how flawed thr system is. Denying the homeless accomodation due to debt is like denying an addict rehab because they have a drug / drink habbit.

    I thought that they were making the point that thousands of people are stuck in temporary accommodation rather than homeless because of it.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,457
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807
    madprof said:


    In the original scheme councils would guarantee a mortgage for purchasers that were unable to get one themselves.
    Perhaps they shouldnt have.
  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,686
    HAYSIE said:

    There is still a provision to have rent paid direct to the landlord. I know this becau/se my son has taken that option on his accomodation although I think this is only applicable with Council houses and social housing.

    Once again though things like this highlight how flawed thr system is. Denying the homeless accomodation due to debt is like denying an addict rehab because they have a drug / drink habbit.

    I thought that they were making the point that thousands of people are stuck in temporary accommodation rather than homeless because of it.
    My son and his 3 children were in temp accom. One room with 5 beds, 1 bathroom, no cooking facilities, no fridge, washer or even a microwave. Was told any attempt to bring cooking capability into the room would see them evicted. Totally unacceptable almost inhumane conditions, boat people get it better, and there were another 10 families in the same hotel. Guess who is making a fortune out of peoples misery.

    2 months later they were moved into a house with facilities, but cant put a phone in or any internet or anything that makes a hole or marks. Not ideal when hes doing an online based course leading to a guaranteed job. Can't have anything ordered that incurs a debt so no H.P. No Klarna, no pay in 3, no direct debits.

    Finally about 7 weeks ago the Coucil found them a house. He's now adjusting to life as a single full time Dad, the kids are settled and happy thank God and the future date I say it is looking better, but please don't think that temporary accomodation is always an answer.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807

    HAYSIE said:

    There is still a provision to have rent paid direct to the landlord. I know this becau/se my son has taken that option on his accomodation although I think this is only applicable with Council houses and social housing.

    Once again though things like this highlight how flawed thr system is. Denying the homeless accomodation due to debt is like denying an addict rehab because they have a drug / drink habbit.

    I thought that they were making the point that thousands of people are stuck in temporary accommodation rather than homeless because of it.
    My son and his 3 children were in temp accom. One room with 5 beds, 1 bathroom, no cooking facilities, no fridge, washer or even a microwave. Was told any attempt to bring cooking capability into the room would see them evicted. Totally unacceptable almost inhumane conditions, boat people get it better, and there were another 10 families in the same hotel. Guess who is making a fortune out of peoples misery.

    2 months later they were moved into a house with facilities, but cant put a phone in or any internet or anything that makes a hole or marks. Not ideal when hes doing an online based course leading to a guaranteed job. Can't have anything ordered that incurs a debt so no H.P. No Klarna, no pay in 3, no direct debits.

    Finally about 7 weeks ago the Coucil found them a house. He's now adjusting to life as a single full time Dad, the kids are settled and happy thank God and the future date I say it is looking better, but please don't think that temporary accomodation is always an answer.
    No it is the problem created by a lack of social housing.
    It must have been f....g tough going.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,767
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    There is still a provision to have rent paid direct to the landlord. I know this becau/se my son has taken that option on his accomodation although I think this is only applicable with Council houses and social housing.

    Once again though things like this highlight how flawed thr system is. Denying the homeless accomodation due to debt is like denying an addict rehab because they have a drug / drink habbit.

    I thought that they were making the point that thousands of people are stuck in temporary accommodation rather than homeless because of it.
    My son and his 3 children were in temp accom. One room with 5 beds, 1 bathroom, no cooking facilities, no fridge, washer or even a microwave. Was told any attempt to bring cooking capability into the room would see them evicted. Totally unacceptable almost inhumane conditions, boat people get it better, and there were another 10 families in the same hotel. Guess who is making a fortune out of peoples misery.

    2 months later they were moved into a house with facilities, but cant put a phone in or any internet or anything that makes a hole or marks. Not ideal when hes doing an online based course leading to a guaranteed job. Can't have anything ordered that incurs a debt so no H.P. No Klarna, no pay in 3, no direct debits.

    Finally about 7 weeks ago the Coucil found them a house. He's now adjusting to life as a single full time Dad, the kids are settled and happy thank God and the future date I say it is looking better, but please don't think that temporary accomodation is always an answer.
    No it is the problem created by a lack of social housing.
    It must have been f....g tough going.
    Agreed. Other than boat people getting it better-they tend to live in conditions just as terrible as your family.

    We used to have a system of Social Housing that had a rather firmer and more permanent foundation than the well-meaning charities and not for profits that do most of the heavy lifting now
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    There is still a provision to have rent paid direct to the landlord. I know this becau/se my son has taken that option on his accomodation although I think this is only applicable with Council houses and social housing.

    Once again though things like this highlight how flawed thr system is. Denying the homeless accomodation due to debt is like denying an addict rehab because they have a drug / drink habbit.

    I thought that they were making the point that thousands of people are stuck in temporary accommodation rather than homeless because of it.
    My son and his 3 children were in temp accom. One room with 5 beds, 1 bathroom, no cooking facilities, no fridge, washer or even a microwave. Was told any attempt to bring cooking capability into the room would see them evicted. Totally unacceptable almost inhumane conditions, boat people get it better, and there were another 10 families in the same hotel. Guess who is making a fortune out of peoples misery.

    2 months later they were moved into a house with facilities, but cant put a phone in or any internet or anything that makes a hole or marks. Not ideal when hes doing an online based course leading to a guaranteed job. Can't have anything ordered that incurs a debt so no H.P. No Klarna, no pay in 3, no direct debits.

    Finally about 7 weeks ago the Coucil found them a house. He's now adjusting to life as a single full time Dad, the kids are settled and happy thank God and the future date I say it is looking better, but please don't think that temporary accomodation is always an answer.
    No it is the problem created by a lack of social housing.
    It must have been f....g tough going.
    Agreed. Other than boat people getting it better-they tend to live in conditions just as terrible as your family.

    We used to have a system of Social Housing that had a rather firmer and more permanent foundation than the well-meaning charities and not for profits that do most of the heavy lifting now
    My Family?
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,767
    No. @TheEdge949 's son and grandkids
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,807
    Essexphil said:

    No. @TheEdge949 's son and grandkids

    You had me wondering.
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