Should farmers as ma cousin said no pay 40% like the rest off us do on there house only like everyone else As that’s fair but taxing there ground is just stealing.. lots off people going to lose there jobs over this .. so more out off work more benefits to pay out .. inflation rises .. prices go up .. economy shrinks .. they’re going to destroy us .. as a country..kier Stalin and his mob off idiots Labour are unfit to govern.. they ain’t going to fix the country they’re going to **** it . Its already stated no growth infatuation up 0.6 % in 2 months
This is a classic example of the misinformation in politics.
On the assumption you mean inflation. The increase has nothing to do with politicians. And everything to do with the 10% rise in gas/electric prices imposed on us all by a Watchdog that I naively thought was supposed to be protecting us.
Inflation was always going to hit this spike. Nothing to do with this Govt. But (of course) it won't stop them from pretending a drop in inflation in exactly 12 months time is due to them. When it won't be.
This spike is the reason we have a Labour Govt. Simply because Rishi Sunak felt he could not leave the last election until Dec 2024. Simply because people would have unjustly blamed the Tories for the increase, and it would have ruined his claims in relation to management of the economy. Because Labour would have claimed it was the Tories fault. As opposed to people now claiming an increase imposed under the last Govt (but not their fault) is somehow due to Labour.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story
Probably more by the 'gentleman' farmer's not real traditional farming families but it is the huge sums being earned by selling off agricultural land for the explosion in new housing- vast sums being earned for land that had an over inflated value as agricultural land...
even before its value as residential use....some ( I say some) farmers are making an absolute fortune selling some of their land atm
2003 is being used as a date for discussion....in 2003 we moved to the country and I tried to purchase the 11 acre field adjacent to my house and the average price then? ( he wouldn't sell)
it was valued at £3k an acre to substantiate the figure being used...I wish the farmer had sold it to me now!
We live in unprecedented times. Unless you count the 1930s.
We have a cost of living crisis not seen for generations. And by that I am not referring to the blips of the last 4 years. The problems go far deeper than that.
Let's use my Family as an example. As examples, I got a free University education. And was able to buy my first house at 25. Debt-free to that point. Think my first house was 3 times my annual salary. All of which was not unusual.
I have 2 children. 24 and 23 years old. Eldest is one of the hundreds of thousands of young adults with health problems stemming from the pandemic. My youngest has just finished her degree. And has debt of £67,000. Her Partner? He has a student debt higher than that. So-they are, between them, just under £150,000 worse off than I was at their age. Looking to spend a further £300,000 on a home. Rather more than 3 x their combined salary.
As Polly Toynbee points out in that article, one third of children currently live below the poverty line. But it tends to be adults that have to pay IHT. And 95% of people dying do not subject their family to any IHT. Simply because most people leave less than £325,000/£1 million. Never mind the £1/3 million that farmers believe is unfair.
People always want the tax burden to fall somewhere else. People who are asset rich and income poor want people with income to pay. And vice versa. But it is not either/or. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. A worker gets to keep the first £12,570 a year. Then pays income tax and NI. Most children who receive inheritances do not pay IHT on the first £1 million in the Estate. Most Farmer's sons do not pay IHT on the first £3 million, then at half rate. And we are asked to believe that this is unfair to sons of Farmers?
I respect the right of Tarquin Hifaluting-Hyphen to take to the streets. Proclaiming that it is all so unfair that they might pay tax once an inheritance due to their privileged birth exceeds £3 million, at half the rate everyone else pays. You know, people who just bequeath a nice house. Or worked to build a business worth more than £1 million on something, anything, that wasn't Farming.
Farmers are trying to convince us that agricultural land will not be agricultural land if they do not keep tax incentives. Yes. It will. Current Farmers are not the only people who know how to work the land, or to pay people who do. Particularly the only Farms that are affected by this. The ones worth more than £3 million
I'm a numbers person. I think most poker players are.
So-let's look at some numbers. To make things simple, let us assume that the Estates consist of just a house, or just a farm. That both are passed to a Child/Children, and that the Spouse Zero tax band has been applied. Let's ignore, for simplicity's sake, any other potential exemptions. And let's compare and contrast the IHT treatment of £1 million, £3 million, and £5 million estates.
IHT payable on £1 million estate. House £0. Farm £0. IHT payable on £3 million estate. House £800,000. Farm £0. IHT payable on £5 million estate. House £1.6 million. Farm £400,000
Simple question. Who do you think gets the best end of this deal?
Alternatively, let's use the Comparators Farmers are trying to use. Again, let's compare like with like. No spouse exemption. No child exemption. Other than that, same as above
IHT payable on £1 million estate. House £270,000. Farm £0 IHT payable on £3 million estate. House £1.07 million. Farm £400,000 IHT payable on £5 million estate. House £1.87 million. Farm £800,000
Anyone now thinking farmer's beneficiary isn't getting the best deal?
Now let's look at a totally random person. And let's suppose this random person on death has a considerable estate, and any zero rate bands have been used elsewhere. And, just for the sake of my example his Farm is not worth Diddly Squat-it is worth on Death £15 million.
An extra £15 million would ordinarily attract an IHT Tax bill of £6 million. Before 2026 (when the new Rules come in) would have successfully reduced the IHT bill on that £15 million from £6 million to £0. And now, under this wicked Labour Govt, the tax advantages of this Tax Avoidance scheme have been reduced. From a £6 million Tax Avoidance Scheme. To a £3 million Tax avoidance scheme.
Now-all someone in that position has to do is persuade ordinary Farmers that it affects them. And food supplies.
The world would be a much better place without loopholes. If only every one that lived in the UK, with an income had to pay income tax at the going rate. And I mean every one. Even contractors that work for the BBC, etc, with Cayman Isles accounts. And every estate that was valued over the tax free limit, was subject to IHT at ascending rates based on the value of the estate, irrespective of what the estate entailed. Nobody has cause to complain about fairness. Those that can afford to pay a little more should.
Does that count for Politicians . don’t they claim it all through expenses ? As they claim everything else .. they should publish there expenses and how much they claim and for what ..we the public should be able to see how much they take .. out our taxes.. and yes I still think it’s a raw deal for farmers .. average wage for small farm owners £25,000 - £30,000 .. per annum.. train drivers on £70,000 for a shocking service get a massive pay rise .. why no tax the unions more … and all donations these political parties get should be published.. including clothing.. Lord Ali .. they’re all sleaze sleaze sleaze .. but this lot are the worst ever in such a short space of time..
We live in unprecedented times. Unless you count the 1930s.
We have a cost of living crisis not seen for generations. And by that I am not referring to the blips of the last 4 years. The problems go far deeper than that.
Let's use my Family as an example. As examples, I got a free University education. And was able to buy my first house at 25. Debt-free to that point. Think my first house was 3 times my annual salary. All of which was not unusual.
I have 2 children. 24 and 23 years old. Eldest is one of the hundreds of thousands of young adults with health problems stemming from the pandemic. My youngest has just finished her degree. And has debt of £67,000. Her Partner? He has a student debt higher than that. So-they are, between them, just under £150,000 worse off than I was at their age. Looking to spend a further £300,000 on a home. Rather more than 3 x their combined salary.
As Polly Toynbee points out in that article, one third of children currently live below the poverty line. But it tends to be adults that have to pay IHT. And 95% of people dying do not subject their family to any IHT. Simply because most people leave less than £325,000/£1 million. Never mind the £1/3 million that farmers believe is unfair.
People always want the tax burden to fall somewhere else. People who are asset rich and income poor want people with income to pay. And vice versa. But it is not either/or. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. A worker gets to keep the first £12,570 a year. Then pays income tax and NI. Most children who receive inheritances do not pay IHT on the first £1 million in the Estate. Most Farmer's sons do not pay IHT on the first £3 million, then at half rate. And we are asked to believe that this is unfair to sons of Farmers?
I respect the right of Tarquin Hifaluting-Hyphen to take to the streets. Proclaiming that it is all so unfair that they might pay tax once an inheritance due to their privileged birth exceeds £3 million, at half the rate everyone else pays. You know, people who just bequeath a nice house. Or worked to build a business worth more than £1 million on something, anything, that wasn't Farming.
Farmers are trying to convince us that agricultural land will not be agricultural land if they do not keep tax incentives. Yes. It will. Current Farmers are not the only people who know how to work the land, or to pay people who do. Particularly the only Farms that are affected by this. The ones worth more than £3 million
All good points, well made. The farmers dont have a leg to stand on.
We live in unprecedented times. Unless you count the 1930s.
We have a cost of living crisis not seen for generations. And by that I am not referring to the blips of the last 4 years. The problems go far deeper than that.
Let's use my Family as an example. As examples, I got a free University education. And was able to buy my first house at 25. Debt-free to that point. Think my first house was 3 times my annual salary. All of which was not unusual.
I have 2 children. 24 and 23 years old. Eldest is one of the hundreds of thousands of young adults with health problems stemming from the pandemic. My youngest has just finished her degree. And has debt of £67,000. Her Partner? He has a student debt higher than that. So-they are, between them, just under £150,000 worse off than I was at their age. Looking to spend a further £300,000 on a home. Rather more than 3 x their combined salary.
As Polly Toynbee points out in that article, one third of children currently live below the poverty line. But it tends to be adults that have to pay IHT. And 95% of people dying do not subject their family to any IHT. Simply because most people leave less than £325,000/£1 million. Never mind the £1/3 million that farmers believe is unfair.
People always want the tax burden to fall somewhere else. People who are asset rich and income poor want people with income to pay. And vice versa. But it is not either/or. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. A worker gets to keep the first £12,570 a year. Then pays income tax and NI. Most children who receive inheritances do not pay IHT on the first £1 million in the Estate. Most Farmer's sons do not pay IHT on the first £3 million, then at half rate. And we are asked to believe that this is unfair to sons of Farmers?
I respect the right of Tarquin Hifaluting-Hyphen to take to the streets. Proclaiming that it is all so unfair that they might pay tax once an inheritance due to their privileged birth exceeds £3 million, at half the rate everyone else pays. You know, people who just bequeath a nice house. Or worked to build a business worth more than £1 million on something, anything, that wasn't Farming.
Farmers are trying to convince us that agricultural land will not be agricultural land if they do not keep tax incentives. Yes. It will. Current Farmers are not the only people who know how to work the land, or to pay people who do. Particularly the only Farms that are affected by this. The ones worth more than £3 million
All good points, well made. The farmers dont have a leg to stand on.
... At least they will be able to get Disability Living Allowance then
As Stewart Lee says about Farmers. "Lions. Led by d1ckheads."
Andrew Lloyd-Webber. 5,000 acre farm. At £10k an acre, that is a £50 million farm. Owned by a "Farmer". Or the Owner of the Daily Mail, Viscount Rothermere, 4,700 acres. James Dyson-36,000 acres. At £10k an acre, that £360 million. Or, to put it another way, on those figures that is one man seeking to legally avoid paying £144 million in Inheritance Tax
UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer announced the British economy could only grow with the help of massive private equity firms like BlackRock, who have a reputation for being aggressive, monopolistic and extortionate. This is how BlackRock could do considerable damage to British family farming in 7 easy steps:
They will start buying up small plots of agricultural land at double the normal price. They will issue a directive to all of their energy companies simultaneously to aggressively acquire plots for carbon capture. These third parties will start bidding against each other and force the value of agricultural land up.
Initially farmers won't believe their luck - “These city folks are mad! If they want to buy an acre for £50K, who am I to say no to these fools,” is what you'll hear down the pub.
These crazy prices will set record high comparisons for agricultural land. When a farmer dies, their farm will be valued using these new metrics and the next generation will discover the farm they thought was worth £3M is worth £9M and they don't have anything close to the money needed to cover the tax.
In swoops a BlackRock subsidiary with a "Agri Debt Finance Tax Relief" product to lend them 20% the "value" of their farm so they can pay the taxes.
The debt will come with conditions (a covenant) that the farm has to adopt and maintain certain practices. It has to use certain BlackRock owned fertilisers, software, machinery and labour solutions that get the farm ready to interface with a larger conglomerate.
When a farm cannot make its debt payments, it is sold at auction. BlackRock subsidiaries are instructed NOT to buy these farms at auction. They have a special arrangement to buy the unsold farms at a rate that covers the unpaid debt plus outstanding fees and taxes to government... basically what the farm was originally worth.
A BlackRock subsidiary then takes over the farm, consolidates it with a massive group of farms that uses illegal immigrant labour to staff the farms (which will be another government program they institute to deal with the immigration crisis). The government will subsidise the labour costs as part of this plan making the farms wildly profitable and making small family farms unable to compete.
To anyone unfamiliar with the mind of a Private Equity General Partner, this will seem totally far fetched. To anyone who's had even the smallest dealings with the private equity world, you will recognise this as a standard playbook for extracting value at a large scale. Mark my words, save this post and watch it all play out.
If Labour are really targeting wealthy people who have bought farms as IHT avoidance schemes why not simply introduce a caveat to the current IHT excemption such as - 'Agricultural relief will be restricted to those where the majority of their income is generated from the land they own and farm and where this has been the case for the last 10 years of their working life'.
Seems simple to me, hits those that aren't really farmers and protects the land of those that have been farmers for years and therefore keeps that land as farming land to produce food.
Alternatively, something like this was posted on social media recently 'I don't know what all this fuss is about farmers producing food, that's their choice, they could just buy it at the supermarket like the rest of us!'
Comments
This is a classic example of the misinformation in politics.
On the assumption you mean inflation. The increase has nothing to do with politicians. And everything to do with the 10% rise in gas/electric prices imposed on us all by a Watchdog that I naively thought was supposed to be protecting us.
Inflation was always going to hit this spike. Nothing to do with this Govt. But (of course) it won't stop them from pretending a drop in inflation in exactly 12 months time is due to them. When it won't be.
This spike is the reason we have a Labour Govt. Simply because Rishi Sunak felt he could not leave the last election until Dec 2024. Simply because people would have unjustly blamed the Tories for the increase, and it would have ruined his claims in relation to management of the economy. Because Labour would have claimed it was the Tories fault. As opposed to people now claiming an increase imposed under the last Govt (but not their fault) is somehow due to Labour.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story
Probably more by the 'gentleman' farmer's not real traditional farming families but it is the huge sums being earned by selling off agricultural land for the explosion in new housing- vast sums being earned for land that had an over inflated value as agricultural land...
even before its value as residential use....some ( I say some) farmers are making an absolute fortune selling some of their land atm
2003 is being used as a date for discussion....in 2003 we moved to the country and I tried to purchase the 11 acre field adjacent to my house and the average price then? ( he wouldn't sell)
it was valued at £3k an acre to substantiate the figure being used...I wish the farmer had sold it to me now!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/farming-rally-organisers-exclude-nigel-174240482.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/look-at-the-farmers-protest-and-then-ask-yourself-how-will-we-ever-make-tax-fairer-amid-such-grumbling/ar-AA1uy7N3?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=fa755eb49bfb4c30a4efc576b3a99682&ei=25#fullscreen
We have a cost of living crisis not seen for generations. And by that I am not referring to the blips of the last 4 years. The problems go far deeper than that.
Let's use my Family as an example. As examples, I got a free University education. And was able to buy my first house at 25. Debt-free to that point. Think my first house was 3 times my annual salary. All of which was not unusual.
I have 2 children. 24 and 23 years old. Eldest is one of the hundreds of thousands of young adults with health problems stemming from the pandemic. My youngest has just finished her degree. And has debt of £67,000. Her Partner? He has a student debt higher than that. So-they are, between them, just under £150,000 worse off than I was at their age. Looking to spend a further £300,000 on a home. Rather more than 3 x their combined salary.
As Polly Toynbee points out in that article, one third of children currently live below the poverty line. But it tends to be adults that have to pay IHT. And 95% of people dying do not subject their family to any IHT. Simply because most people leave less than £325,000/£1 million. Never mind the £1/3 million that farmers believe is unfair.
People always want the tax burden to fall somewhere else. People who are asset rich and income poor want people with income to pay. And vice versa. But it is not either/or. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. A worker gets to keep the first £12,570 a year. Then pays income tax and NI. Most children who receive inheritances do not pay IHT on the first £1 million in the Estate. Most Farmer's sons do not pay IHT on the first £3 million, then at half rate. And we are asked to believe that this is unfair to sons of Farmers?
I respect the right of Tarquin Hifaluting-Hyphen to take to the streets. Proclaiming that it is all so unfair that they might pay tax once an inheritance due to their privileged birth exceeds £3 million, at half the rate everyone else pays. You know, people who just bequeath a nice house. Or worked to build a business worth more than £1 million on something, anything, that wasn't Farming.
Farmers are trying to convince us that agricultural land will not be agricultural land if they do not keep tax incentives. Yes. It will. Current Farmers are not the only people who know how to work the land, or to pay people who do. Particularly the only Farms that are affected by this. The ones worth more than £3 million
So-let's look at some numbers. To make things simple, let us assume that the Estates consist of just a house, or just a farm. That both are passed to a Child/Children, and that the Spouse Zero tax band has been applied. Let's ignore, for simplicity's sake, any other potential exemptions. And let's compare and contrast the IHT treatment of £1 million, £3 million, and £5 million estates.
IHT payable on £1 million estate. House £0. Farm £0.
IHT payable on £3 million estate. House £800,000. Farm £0.
IHT payable on £5 million estate. House £1.6 million. Farm £400,000
Simple question. Who do you think gets the best end of this deal?
IHT payable on £1 million estate. House £270,000. Farm £0
IHT payable on £3 million estate. House £1.07 million. Farm £400,000
IHT payable on £5 million estate. House £1.87 million. Farm £800,000
Anyone now thinking farmer's beneficiary isn't getting the best deal?
Now let's look at a totally random person. And let's suppose this random person on death has a considerable estate, and any zero rate bands have been used elsewhere. And, just for the sake of my example his Farm is not worth Diddly Squat-it is worth on Death £15 million.
An extra £15 million would ordinarily attract an IHT Tax bill of £6 million. Before 2026 (when the new Rules come in) would have successfully reduced the IHT bill on that £15 million from £6 million to £0. And now, under this wicked Labour Govt, the tax advantages of this Tax Avoidance scheme have been reduced. From a £6 million Tax Avoidance Scheme. To a £3 million Tax avoidance scheme.
Now-all someone in that position has to do is persuade ordinary Farmers that it affects them. And food supplies.
As opposed to the Tax Avoiders.
If only every one that lived in the UK, with an income had to pay income tax at the going rate.
And I mean every one.
Even contractors that work for the BBC, etc, with Cayman Isles accounts.
And every estate that was valued over the tax free limit, was subject to IHT at ascending rates based on the value of the estate, irrespective of what the estate entailed.
Nobody has cause to complain about fairness.
Those that can afford to pay a little more should.
and yes I still think it’s a raw deal for farmers .. average wage for small farm owners £25,000 - £30,000 .. per annum.. train drivers on £70,000 for a shocking service get a massive pay rise .. why no tax the unions more … and all donations these political parties get should be published.. including clothing.. Lord Ali .. they’re all sleaze sleaze sleaze .. but this lot are the worst ever in such a short space of time..
You were all warned that tweedledum was just that, but you all voted for him. !
The farmers dont have a leg to stand on.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/flat-cap-clarkson-only-wants-his-nose-in-the-trough/ar-AA1uEzXH?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=ef02d653525048cd9ca74eb7767d4d57&ei=64
As Stewart Lee says about Farmers. "Lions. Led by d1ckheads."
Andrew Lloyd-Webber. 5,000 acre farm. At £10k an acre, that is a £50 million farm. Owned by a "Farmer". Or the Owner of the Daily Mail, Viscount Rothermere, 4,700 acres. James Dyson-36,000 acres. At £10k an acre, that £360 million. Or, to put it another way, on those figures that is one man seeking to legally avoid paying £144 million in Inheritance Tax
UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer announced the British economy could only grow with the help of massive private equity firms like BlackRock, who have a reputation for being aggressive, monopolistic and extortionate. This is how BlackRock could do considerable damage to British family farming in 7 easy steps:
They will start buying up small plots of agricultural land at double the normal price. They will issue a directive to all of their energy companies simultaneously to aggressively acquire plots for carbon capture. These third parties will start bidding against each other and force the value of agricultural land up.
Initially farmers won't believe their luck - “These city folks are mad! If they want to buy an acre for £50K, who am I to say no to these fools,” is what you'll hear down the pub.
These crazy prices will set record high comparisons for agricultural land. When a farmer dies, their farm will be valued using these new metrics and the next generation will discover the farm they thought was worth £3M is worth £9M and they don't have anything close to the money needed to cover the tax.
In swoops a BlackRock subsidiary with a "Agri Debt Finance Tax Relief" product to lend them 20% the "value" of their farm so they can pay the taxes.
The debt will come with conditions (a covenant) that the farm has to adopt and maintain certain practices. It has to use certain BlackRock owned fertilisers, software, machinery and labour solutions that get the farm ready to interface with a larger conglomerate.
When a farm cannot make its debt payments, it is sold at auction. BlackRock subsidiaries are instructed NOT to buy these farms at auction. They have a special arrangement to buy the unsold farms at a rate that covers the unpaid debt plus outstanding fees and taxes to government... basically what the farm was originally worth.
A BlackRock subsidiary then takes over the farm, consolidates it with a massive group of farms that uses illegal immigrant labour to staff the farms (which will be another government program they institute to deal with the immigration crisis). The government will subsidise the labour costs as part of this plan making the farms wildly profitable and making small family farms unable to compete.
To anyone unfamiliar with the mind of a Private Equity General Partner, this will seem totally far fetched. To anyone who's had even the smallest dealings with the private equity world, you will recognise this as a standard playbook for extracting value at a large scale. Mark my words, save this post and watch it all play out.
Seems simple to me, hits those that aren't really farmers and protects the land of those that have been farmers for years and therefore keeps that land as farming land to produce food.
Alternatively, something like this was posted on social media recently 'I don't know what all this fuss is about farmers producing food, that's their choice, they could just buy it at the supermarket like the rest of us!'