Wouldn't you have to start the 6pm Semi to the Main even earlier though
.....or scrap it and have the Late Reg Semi as the only one, which would be a shame
.....i suppose you could introduce a Turbo Semi, but I think the Semi's work well as they are, and for me, is the only way I ever play a Main.
What is the average run time for that semi now? I was thinking a 17:30 start for that semi to a 19:00 main would be sufficient for qualifiers to be entered on time, mostly. If that wouldn't quite make a 19:00 start time for the main surely a 17:30 semi would be concluded not long after a 19:00 main starts.
Sorry @MynaFrett .... I'd missed that on OP , and it was the first thing on there
Great Post btw
Instead of 7@7 and 9@9 ....with Myna's Schedule they could be 6@6 and 8@8
If bringing the start times for the main and mini forward an hour turns out to be a non-negotiable (which would be a shame) then it would certainly be interesting to see how the £5.50 £3000 gtd rebuy bounty hunter (Mini Avenger) would perform on a Monday/Wednesday/Thursday and whether the lure of a potential big win for £10.50-£15.50 (assuming the add-on and possibly a rebuy) is more enticing than an early night during the week. It would also be interesting to see the numbers for a Monday/Wednesday/Thursday if those minis were just switched to the £5.50 £1500 gtd 7 minute blinds version instead.
A couple of years ago I would have been anti rebuy-addons and also anti turbo so I know how some players will feel about that.
I believe it's primarily the finishing time of those non-turbo minis on Monday/Wednesday/Thursday which is harming participation. The guarantee drops, interest drops off a bit then people look for alternatives and the numbers don't recover for those days. I'm repeating myself now but there are games out there for £5 starting between 17:00-19:30 which I think have become more attractive for casual players during the week. They might be saying "right I'm going to play these £5 MTT starting on these sites at 17:30, 18:00, 18:30, 19:00, 19:30 and that'll be me done for the night. I'll play the 18:30 BH on Sky but no need to play the Sky mini tonight because it goes too late and it also starts an hour after I've finished registering my other tournaments. I'll just add the Sky mini on a Tuesday and a Saturday because they finish around the same time as the 19:00 I play on this site and the 19:30 I play on that site."
I believe the better solution is to bring the mini (and the main) in line with the start times of those other MTT people are playing elsewhere and also playing here if you look at participation in the 18:30 £5.50 BH. That tournament could continue to get even closer to mini numbers and that's with an £800 guarantee, no fanfare and no added pull of the FTJ... I've only ever had a small FTJ myself and also a couple of near misses recently. Those times when you are going deep in the main and the mini simultaneously are exhilarating and unique to Sky Poker. That was the main reason I brought Sky games back into my schedule recently. The FTJ is a real selling point in my opinion and it certainly gets some of the regs with high ABI's flicking in the mini as probably the only £5 MTT they would entertain anywhere (HUGHMANS said as much in their post as well). It also serves as an extra draw for lower stakes players to try and get rolled to be able to play both the main and the mini without having to rely on the satellites (I'm an example of that). I believe it becomes an even greater draw and participation increases if the main and the mini also start at 19:00 and 19:30 respectively.
Failing that, if there is a reluctance to reorder the schedule to offer earlier start times and finishes with better placement of the non-turbo and turbo tournaments then making all mains 10 minute blinds and all minis 7 minute blinds might (should) also increase participation even if they remain in the 20:00 and 20:30 slots.
19:00/19:30 starts > 20:00/20:30 starts with faster structures > the status quo
I suggested a Sunday for another rebuy mini, because the people that currently play it already spend a tenner. I am not against earlier starting times. Although I think I would be against speeding them up. As far as the main is concerned we have a couple of nights that are currently 7 minute blinds, and I dont think they should be all the same, nothing wrong with a bit of a variety. It would be interesting to actually know why a Friday rebuy mini is so successful. I havent looked at the minis for a while, because I only play it on a Friday. I would think that Friday gets more than double the runners of any other night. There were 313 runners last night, whose average spend was just about £11.80 per head. More than double the buy in for a weeknight. I suppose this is because the guarantee is double what it is in the week. Last night the prize pool was almost treble an average £1250 guarantee. Maybe it is as you say, that Friday is on the weekend, and not so many people work on a Saturday. But then you would have to ask yourself why are the runners on a Saturday so low in comparison. The mini players on a Friday and Sunday are prepared to spend double the buy in that they spend in the week. I think another rebuy mini is a good idea. Starting times dont bother me as I am retired. So I wouldnt mind if they are earlier or not. Although I do think the biggest difference on a Friday is the prizepool. It almost reached the Monday guarantee for the main last night, and for the average player it was less than half the buy in. For the life of me I couldnt see any reason why Sky wouldnt at least try the same format on at least one other night.
Wouldn't you have to start the 6pm Semi to the Main even earlier though
.....or scrap it and have the Late Reg Semi as the only one, which would be a shame
.....i suppose you could introduce a Turbo Semi, but I think the Semi's work well as they are, and for me, is the only way I ever play a Main.
What is the average run time for that semi now? I was thinking a 17:30 start for that semi to a 19:00 main would be sufficient for qualifiers to be entered on time, mostly. If that wouldn't quite make a 19:00 start time for the main surely a 17:30 semi would be concluded not long after a 19:00 main starts.
I think it's around 90mins-ish .....but the only problem might be getting enough runners for it to go ahead in the first place at 5.30pm, certainly with the present number of Guaranteed Seats. I think it occasionally cancels at 6pm, as more people either seem to be waiting until towards the end of late reg. to register, or just aren't home from work in time.
Just to muddy the water a little further, as you've been discussing the pros & cons of the Minis.
On Saturday's, it has a £1,500 guarantee. Here's the last 4 renewals, ignoring the 2 weeks of UKOPS. The numbers do tend to suggest there's not much wrong with the Saturday Mini.
Just to muddy the water a little further, as you've been discussing the pros & cons of the Minis.
On Saturday's, it has a £1,500 guarantee. Here's the last 4 renewals, ignoring the 2 weeks of UKOPS. The numbers do tend to suggest there's not much wrong with the Saturday Mini.
Saturday 23rd November £1,930
Saturday 16th November £1,765
Saturday 26th October £1,685
Saturday 19th October £1,960
To counter this argument though it is a turbo so guarantees an early finish, I'd guess Tuesday's numbers are also respectable, I don't touch mini's in general because I can't be arsed to battle for 3-4 hours late into the night to finish 10th for £20, I will play the Friday mini and the turbo mini's because it's worth more and they finish earlier, an earlier start time would slightly negate my personal feelings about playing for hours with little return because I'd likely still be playing something else alongside a deep mini run if it was an hour or so earlier
Just to muddy the water a little further, as you've been discussing the pros & cons of the Minis.
On Saturday's, it has a £1,500 guarantee. Here's the last 4 renewals, ignoring the 2 weeks of UKOPS. The numbers do tend to suggest there's not much wrong with the Saturday Mini.
Saturday 23rd November £1,930
Saturday 16th November £1,765
Saturday 26th October £1,685
Saturday 19th October £1,960
I wasnt intending to criticise anything really, but the runners every night in the week are well short of Friday figures. I am not clever enough to know whether the popularity is because of the fact there is no work on Saturday for most people, or the actual prizepool. Although you can say for sure that the starting time is not an impediment. Nor is the buy in, as the average spend is just about two and a half times the buy in, in the week. I assume that Saturday is the best night for runners, and also unaffected by starting time. As I said earlier, I am pretty flexible when it comes to starting times. Although I would not support the main or the mini becoming turbos every night. My point was that I couldnt possibly see why Sky wouldnt want to try an additional £5 rebuy mini on one other night. I was thinking a Sunday night, and switching the tenner night to a Saturday. This could maybe boost the mini on both nights. But what do I know?
Just to muddy the water a little further, as you've been discussing the pros & cons of the Minis.
On Saturday's, it has a £1,500 guarantee. Here's the last 4 renewals, ignoring the 2 weeks of UKOPS. The numbers do tend to suggest there's not much wrong with the Saturday Mini.
Saturday 23rd November £1,930
Saturday 16th November £1,765
Saturday 26th October £1,685
Saturday 19th October £1,960
To counter this argument though it is a turbo so guarantees an early finish, I'd guess Tuesday's numbers are also respectable, I don't touch mini's in general because I can't be arsed to battle for 3-4 hours late into the night to finish 10th for £20, I will play the Friday mini and the turbo mini's because it's worth more and they finish earlier, an earlier start time would slightly negate my personal feelings about playing for hours with little return because I'd likely still be playing something else alongside a deep mini run if it was an hour or so earlier
Do you think the buy in is too low?
I appreciate that players with smaller bank rolls have to be considered, and if Sky dont provide tourneys for them to play, they will vote with their feet. Is it a coincidence that the main with the most runners is on Friday? If you discount the Major because of the £110 buy in, Friday has the biggest prizepool of the week. Many players will spend £60 on a Friday, double the buy in in the week. So the biggest prizepools for the main (except Sunday) and the mini, are on the most expensive night.
As you said, in order to be keen to play a particular tourney, you have to think it will be worthwhile. The number of runners, and the guarantees on the minis have dropped, perhaps it is time to increase the buy in a little, or add a re-entry. Especially when what most players would consider to be the best mini of the week, is the most expensive.
...it is a turbo so guarantees an early finish, I'd guess Tuesday's numbers are also respectable, I don't touch mini's in general because I can't be arsed to battle for 3-4 hours late into the night to finish 10th for £20, I will play the Friday mini and the turbo mini's because it's worth more and they finish earlier, an earlier start time would slightly negate my personal feelings about playing for hours with little return because I'd likely still be playing something else alongside a deep mini run if it was an hour or so earlier
I think this just about hits the nail on the head in a more concise way than my posts. I think a lot of players would be in agreement with this and I think the numbers @Tikay10 has been sharing with us about how the different minis perform against each other also back this up. It's possible that a Saturday mini would still perform well even if it was the ten minute blind version and not the 7 minute version, would it do AS well? Difficult to know. It seems fair to compare Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday against each other though and the numbers clearly show that Tuesday with its earlier finish is definitely the preferred option for players.
My initial suggestion was to have the main at 19:00 and the mini at 19:30 but I am now seeing some real advantages to Essexphil's suggestion of keeping the main at 20:00 and simply moving the mini to 19:30.
1) solves the problem of the non-turbo minis finishing too late for a lot of players to entertain on a Monday, Wednesday and Thursday
2) doesn't come with the potential risks of moving the main from 20:00 to 19:00. The main also suffers to a lesser degree on those weeknights than the mini anyway
3) doesn't interfere with the current satellite schedule to the main which may have caused issues for some players
4) from a personal point of view I have on a number of occasions bust the main before the mini starts and then unregistered the mini - I'm sure other players have done/do this as well. Having the mini start 30 minutes before the main will stop this happening as players wouldn't be unregistering the main as a consequence of busting the mini early
5) there is the possibility of players who always play the mini (and perhaps rarely or never play the main) running up a big stack in the first 60-90 minutes of the mini and then deciding that would be a good time to shot take the main
What, IMHO, has been achieved is a business case for trialling some sort of 7:30 Mini on Tuesday or Saturday (as well as keeping the existing Mini), and a Mini at 7:30 and a speed Mini at 8:30 on 1 of the other 5 days.
Alternatively, to introduce it as part of the next UKOPS
just sticking my 50p in... earlier starts and earlier sats wouldn't always work for people who work/ have young families, I try to get on as early as possible once my daughter is asleep and normally only enter the 19:10 £5 rebuy as I can have an add on straight away which doesn't then leave me behind. just another thing to add to the mix haha. I know you'll never please everyone just means id have to sometimes join late and play catch up.
@mumsie I know what you're saying but I can't help feeling it won't be an equal number worse as better off in this case. Of course a 19:30 start is going to hurt some people who are unable to play some poker until at least 20:30 in the evening but I can't see that number being close to the number of people who are already available willing and able to play poker from 17:00/18:00/19:00 onwards but also currently unwilling to play those Monday, Wednesday and Thursday mini because they go later than they are willing to stay up playing poker for on those nights.
Of course it's a minefield. The bottom line is that the Monday, Wednesday and Thursday mini are performing poorly compared to the Tuesday. To address that discrepancy the options seem to be either shift the start times or make the Monday, Wednesday and Thursday mini the same structure/format as the Tuesday one. I don't know which is the best way to improve participation and upset the fewest people.
Agree with this, absolutely. Earlier starts way better. Consider that a lot of players start their schedule with the 6 and 630 free rolls, that 6 is done by 7 most of the time. Great time for the mini to start. I’ve done a stint playing the later events this summer and it’s done me in, had to break from it this month to recover and not sure I can bring myself to do it again.
Comments
Great Post btw
Instead of 7@7 and 9@9 ....with Myna's Schedule they could be 6@6 and 8@8
I am not against earlier starting times.
Although I think I would be against speeding them up.
As far as the main is concerned we have a couple of nights that are currently 7 minute blinds, and I dont think they should be all the same, nothing wrong with a bit of a variety.
It would be interesting to actually know why a Friday rebuy mini is so successful.
I havent looked at the minis for a while, because I only play it on a Friday.
I would think that Friday gets more than double the runners of any other night.
There were 313 runners last night, whose average spend was just about £11.80 per head.
More than double the buy in for a weeknight.
I suppose this is because the guarantee is double what it is in the week.
Last night the prize pool was almost treble an average £1250 guarantee.
Maybe it is as you say, that Friday is on the weekend, and not so many people work on a Saturday.
But then you would have to ask yourself why are the runners on a Saturday so low in comparison.
The mini players on a Friday and Sunday are prepared to spend double the buy in that they spend in the week.
I think another rebuy mini is a good idea.
Starting times dont bother me as I am retired.
So I wouldnt mind if they are earlier or not.
Although I do think the biggest difference on a Friday is the prizepool.
It almost reached the Monday guarantee for the main last night, and for the average player it was less than half the buy in.
For the life of me I couldnt see any reason why Sky wouldnt at least try the same format on at least one other night.
I think it occasionally cancels at 6pm, as more people either seem to be waiting until towards the end of late reg. to register, or just aren't home from work in time.
A tricky balancing act
Just to muddy the water a little further, as you've been discussing the pros & cons of the Minis.
On Saturday's, it has a £1,500 guarantee. Here's the last 4 renewals, ignoring the 2 weeks of UKOPS. The numbers do tend to suggest there's not much wrong with the Saturday Mini.
Saturday 23rd November £1,930
Saturday 16th November £1,765
Saturday 26th October £1,685
Saturday 19th October £1,960
7:30 Mini
8:00 Main
8:30 Speed Mini
I am not clever enough to know whether the popularity is because of the fact there is no work on Saturday for most people, or the actual prizepool.
Although you can say for sure that the starting time is not an impediment.
Nor is the buy in, as the average spend is just about two and a half times the buy in, in the week.
I assume that Saturday is the best night for runners, and also unaffected by starting time.
As I said earlier, I am pretty flexible when it comes to starting times.
Although I would not support the main or the mini becoming turbos every night.
My point was that I couldnt possibly see why Sky wouldnt want to try an additional £5 rebuy mini on one other night.
I was thinking a Sunday night, and switching the tenner night to a Saturday.
This could maybe boost the mini on both nights.
But what do I know?
I appreciate that players with smaller bank rolls have to be considered, and if Sky dont provide tourneys for them to play, they will vote with their feet.
Is it a coincidence that the main with the most runners is on Friday?
If you discount the Major because of the £110 buy in, Friday has the biggest prizepool of the week.
Many players will spend £60 on a Friday, double the buy in in the week.
So the biggest prizepools for the main (except Sunday) and the mini, are on the most expensive night.
As you said, in order to be keen to play a particular tourney, you have to think it will be worthwhile.
The number of runners, and the guarantees on the minis have dropped, perhaps it is time to increase the buy in a little, or add a re-entry.
Especially when what most players would consider to be the best mini of the week, is the most expensive.
1) solves the problem of the non-turbo minis finishing too late for a lot of players to entertain on a Monday, Wednesday and Thursday
2) doesn't come with the potential risks of moving the main from 20:00 to 19:00. The main also suffers to a lesser degree on those weeknights than the mini anyway
3) doesn't interfere with the current satellite schedule to the main which may have caused issues for some players
4) from a personal point of view I have on a number of occasions bust the main before the mini starts and then unregistered the mini - I'm sure other players have done/do this as well. Having the mini start 30 minutes before the main will stop this happening as players wouldn't be unregistering the main as a consequence of busting the mini early
5) there is the possibility of players who always play the mini (and perhaps rarely or never play the main) running up a big stack in the first 60-90 minutes of the mini and then deciding that would be a good time to shot take the main
What, IMHO, has been achieved is a business case for trialling some sort of 7:30 Mini on Tuesday or Saturday (as well as keeping the existing Mini), and a Mini at 7:30 and a speed Mini at 8:30 on 1 of the other 5 days.
Alternatively, to introduce it as part of the next UKOPS
However.
People don't like change, for every person better off there will be an equal number worse off.
I don't know which is the best way to improve participation and upset the fewest people.
I’ve done a stint playing the later events this summer and it’s done me in, had to break from it this month to recover and not sure I can bring myself to do it again.