When this hand took place I put PMSL in the chat-box. Got a "what?" in reply and then some lame "oops, I clicked the wrong thingmebob....the cat ate the computer et cetera"
It was an INSTANT-FOLD after the All-In. Forgive me for sounding a bit cynical, but the Raise and Fold are a couple of inches apart.
This was a regular Omaha DYM player, and I told them that they had gone down in my estimation because of their play.
I always thought of chipdumping to more of an activity of the cash games. Simply moving large amounts from one player to another for fraudulent purposes. Cant see why this would happen on S&G....
I always thought of chipdumping to more of an activity of the cash games. Simply moving large amounts from one player to another for fraudulent purposes. Cant see why this would happen on S&G.... Posted by -Typhoon-
It would happen in an SnG (particularly in a DYM) in order to get both of two "friends" to cash. If either of the players gets a large chip lead then they could "donate" chips to their co-conspirator to help them without damaging their own position very much.
Also, it might look like a poor fold in the hand above but it is miles away from anything like evidence of chip-dumping.
There's nowhere near enough evidence of chip dumping based on that hand alone. Folds that would be crazy in cash games or ordinary STTs sometimes make sense in a DYM, particularly if you have a good chip lead over 4th place, as mmmm???? does at this table.
Maybe keep an eye on those two players, see if they sit at DYM's together again in the future, observe the table if you like, sharkscope might help. Notify Sky CS if there's a pattern. I would be surprised and disappointed if players resorted to chip dumping for the sake of just £2.
In Response to Re: Blatant Chip-Dropping/Dumping in DYM (or any) Games.... : It would happen in an SnG (particularly in a DYM) in order to get both of two "friends" to cash. If either of the players gets a large chip lead then they could "donate" chips to their co-conspirator to help them without damaging their own position very much. Also, it might look like a poor fold in the hand above but it is miles away from anything like evidence of chip-dumping. Posted by MereNovice
On its own merit maybe not but as part of a series of evidence then it is significant... Same as the stoxpoker scandal that is being investigated http://www.pokertableratings.com/blog/2010/04/stoxpoker-collusion-investigation/. Well done emily 4 saayin something these people need persecuting its cheating and it really GRINDSSSS MYYYY GEARRRRRSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
my brother is on this site and i have to admit there is NO WAY we would chip dump against each other,mainly because of braggin rites so if anyone comes up against toonarmy 01 kick his **** thanks, lookin forward 2 next season he`ll owe me 2 pints when liverpool stuff em again lol
There's nowhere near enough evidence of chip dumping based on that hand alone. Folds that would be crazy in cash games or ordinary STTs sometimes make sense in a DYM, particularly if you have a good chip lead over 4th place, as mmmm???? does at this table . Maybe keep an eye on those two players, see if they sit at DYM's together again in the future, observe the table if you like, sharkscope might help. Notify Sky CS if there's a pattern. I would be surprised and disappointed if players resorted to chip dumping for the sake of just £2. Posted by GaryQQQ
its not just £2, they could be trial running a scandal that they will take to higher stakes, not only this they could be playing 200 games an hour on more than this site.
There's nowhere near enough evidence of chip dumping based on that hand alone. Folds that would be crazy in cash games or ordinary STTs sometimes make sense in a DYM, particularly if you have a good chip lead over 4th place, as mmmm???? does at this table . Maybe keep an eye on those two players, see if they sit at DYM's together again in the future, observe the table if you like, sharkscope might help. Notify Sky CS if there's a pattern. I would be surprised and disappointed if players resorted to chip dumping for the sake of just£2. Posted by GaryQQQ
That surprised me as well tbh Gary. Have had a look on Sharkscope as well (not a subscriber...going to ask a friend to have a look)
mmmm???? played 3 £2 DYM games in the space of about 4 hours yesterday....could only check 2 of them, but it did throw up a 1-2 finish in both games involving the other player. (????????)
When I have the 3rd game looked at....would it be just coincidence if the same two players played and cashed in that too, or should a stewards enquiry be launched?
NOT LOOKING FOR ANYONE TO HAVE A GO AT ME............I just put the question out there because of the "POOR" fold....that still looks very iffy to me.
In Response to Re: Blatant Chip-Dropping/Dumping in DYM (or any) Games.... : its not just £2, they could be trial running a scandal that they will take to higher stakes, not only this they could be playing 200 games an hour on more than this site. Posted by hotpotato
They'd be mugs to "trial run" it at £2 since as you say, if there is a pattern of hands like this it will clearly look like collusion. The more times they play hands like this the more damning the evidence would be.
If the OP finds consistent evidence, I wish him good luck with his complaint.
In Response to Re: Blatant Chip-Dropping/Dumping in DYM (or any) Games.... : That surprised me as well tbh Gary. Have had a look on Sharkscope as well (not a subscriber...going to ask a friend to have a look) mmmm???? played 3 £2 DYM games in the space of about 4 hours yesterday....could only check 2 of them, but it did throw up a 1-2 finish in both games involving the other player. (????????) When I have the 3rd game looked at....would it be just coincidence if the same two players played and cashed in that too, or should a stewards enquiry be launched? NOT LOOKING FOR ANYONE TO HAVE A GO AT ME............I just put the question out there because of the "POOR" fold....that still looks very iffy to me. Posted by emilyegg
Finishing positions are no indication of collusion whatsoever. You would need hand history evidence that showed a repeated pattern of plays like this. If you found 3 or 4 hands in a small sample of tournaments where the equivalent plays were made, you should report it to Customer Services and get it investigated.
Some good posts folks, Thanks. I don`t see it as a complaint as such.......just very strange. And Sad. If you look at that hand 100 times, to call it a "POOR" fold would be very, very kind. (imho) Posted by emilyegg
If it was an isolated incident and the bloke says "Oh heck and damnation, i pressed the wrong button" (paraphrasing of course lol) then i'd be inclined to be a believer but if as you say they play mainly together, have many occasions of 1 - 2 positions and a chain of plays within those games where strange folds are made to the shorter stack then i'd see that as an amalgamation of different things which alone mean nothing but combined and with multiple occurrence's spell out C H E A T S lol
DYM games are probably the easiest way to make money by doing this. I used to like playing these games but donj,t as much now because of this. Ive seen it been done blatantly on other sites with the same ppl playing in every game togethor and have reported it myself before
With so many ppl on sky poker getting to know each other better (through live events etc) there is bound to be some ppl at it now but by highlighting this problem and making other players aware i would urge anyone with suspsicions to keep an eye on the respective players and if you still think they are at it then report it straight away.
It can be difficult to spot as you could have a team of ppl doing it making it harder to spot. Everyone wants an edge but this is blatant cheating or coluding -whatever you want to call it
I live in a shared house and 4 of us are regular gamblers and it has been suggested before, but wouldn't entertain it especially on sky which i consider to be my favourite site and wouldnt risk getting barred.
Once again well done for highlighting to other players and lets just hope customer services or someone on sky is keeping a close eye on this although i do think it is not as common on here (if at all) as other bigger sites where there are a lot more players and a lot more games going on
my brother is on this site and i have to admit there is NO WAY we would chip dump against each other,mainly because of braggin rites so if anyone comes up against toonarmy 01 kick his **** thanks, lookin forward 2 next season he`ll owe me 2 pints when liverpool stuff em again lol Posted by spornybol
I know what you mean Spornybol and FWIW one of the best DYM Players that I play amongst regularly on here....Step forward Irishrover, who is one of my best mates on here, but does not give a second thought to throwing me in a black-bag and booting me off a cliff (so to speak) when we are at the same table.
In Response to Blatant Chip-Dropping in DYM (or any) Games....Is it Cheating? or am I Missing a Trick? : Hi If you suspect someone, I would suggest you contact Customer Care , I suspect emilyegg is on about chip dumping:Chip Dumping means that one player deliberately looses his chips against another player. E.g. while betting on a weak hand. In tournaments, this is a common strategy. Posted by acebarry10
on this site? i hope not .it is not common surely??
I know this has now been dealt with privately by Sky Bernie (who has contacted Emilyegg).
quick notification for everyone -
Please make all future chip dumping/ fraud allegations directly to the customer care team. With have a dedicated fraud team who will thoroughly investigate all reports but unfortunately the public forum isn't really the place.
In Response to Re: Blatant Chip-Dropping/Dumping in DYM (or any) Games.... : I know what you mean Spornybol and FWIW one of the best DYM Players that I play amongst regularly on here....Step forward Irishrover , who is one of my best mates on here, but does not give a second thought to throwing me in a black-bag and booting me off a cliff (so to speak) when we are at the same table. Posted by emilyegg
u don`t deserve a black bag ur 2 good 4 it a suit case is more u lol
Hey Guys, I know this has now been dealt with privately by Sky Bernie (who has contacted Emilyegg). quick notification for everyone - Please make all future chip dumping/ fraud allegations directly to the customer care team. With have a dedicated fraud team who will thoroughly investigate all reports but unfortunately the public forum isn't really the place. (Just a friendly reminder for the future) Thanks for being understanding everyone. Rich Posted by Sky_Rich
In fairness rich this conversation tendend to stay quite general and no one was named. More of a general question i think with regard to if it was against the rules, why it would be done, what should be done about it & what would constitute evidence of this
Comments
It was an INSTANT-FOLD after the All-In. Forgive me for sounding a bit cynical, but the Raise and Fold are a couple of inches apart.
This was a regular Omaha DYM player, and I told them that they had gone down in my estimation because of their play.
It would happen in an SnG (particularly in a DYM) in order to get both of two "friends" to cash. If either of the players gets a large chip lead then they could "donate" chips to their co-conspirator to help them without damaging their own position very much.
Also, it might look like a poor fold in the hand above but it is miles away from anything like evidence of chip-dumping.
There is some substance....now that I am checking out the games they played together yesterday. mmmmm interesting.
Maybe keep an eye on those two players, see if they sit at DYM's together again in the future, observe the table if you like, sharkscope might help. Notify Sky CS if there's a pattern. I would be surprised and disappointed if players resorted to chip dumping for the sake of just £2.
mmmm???? played 3 £2 DYM games in the space of about 4 hours yesterday....could only check 2 of them, but it did throw up a 1-2 finish in both games involving the other player. (????????)
When I have the 3rd game looked at....would it be just coincidence if the same two players played and cashed in that too, or should a stewards enquiry be launched?
NOT LOOKING FOR ANYONE TO HAVE A GO AT ME............I just put the question out there because of the "POOR" fold....that still looks very iffy to me.
The more times they play hands like this the more damning the evidence would be.
If the OP finds consistent evidence, I wish him good luck with his complaint.
Finishing positions are no indication of collusion whatsoever.
You would need hand history evidence that showed a repeated pattern of plays like this.
If you found 3 or 4 hands in a small sample of tournaments where the equivalent plays were made, you should report it to Customer Services and get it investigated.
Some good posts folks, Thanks. I don`t see it as a complaint as such.......just very strange. And Sad.
If you look at that hand 100 times, to call it a "POOR" fold would be very, very kind. (imho)
DYM games are probably the easiest way to make money by doing this. I used to like playing these games but donj,t as much now because of this. Ive seen it been done blatantly on other sites with the same ppl playing in every game togethor and have reported it myself before
With so many ppl on sky poker getting to know each other better (through live events etc) there is bound to be some ppl at it now but by highlighting this problem and making other players aware i would urge anyone with suspsicions to keep an eye on the respective players and if you still think they are at it then report it straight away.
It can be difficult to spot as you could have a team of ppl doing it making it harder to spot. Everyone wants an edge but this is blatant cheating or coluding -whatever you want to call it
I live in a shared house and 4 of us are regular gamblers and it has been suggested before, but wouldn't entertain it especially on sky which i consider to be my favourite site and wouldnt risk getting barred.
Once again well done for highlighting to other players and lets just hope customer services or someone on sky is keeping a close eye on this although i do think it is not as common on here (if at all) as other bigger sites where there are a lot more players and a lot more games going on
ok m8y you pm me the names i check out on random about 50 of
their last 250 games ,
they are sparkling clean,
the guy was telling you the truth !
I know this has now been dealt with privately by Sky Bernie (who has contacted Emilyegg).
quick notification for everyone -
Please make all future chip dumping/ fraud allegations directly to the customer care team. With have a dedicated fraud team who will thoroughly investigate all reports but unfortunately the public forum isn't really the place.
(Just a friendly reminder for the future)
Thanks for being understanding everyone.
Rich