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Sky Dave asks "What Would You Do?" - 15/04/10
Sky_Dave
Member Posts: 3,288
hmmm i put it into poker stove and i think you have about 40% equity here ish... so mathematically is that a call or fold someone who can be bothered to work it out 
pot is about 140 when facing the decision, 75 to call... in terms of working out % odds here is the total pot just the 140... so 75/140 or is it 140 + the 75 to call making it 75/215?
tbh it looks very marginal so i guess either option isn't too bad. Surely if you check raise there you check raise looking to get it all in though?
I see no problem with calling with the JTs there, would prefer position over the 3 better though or could consider 4 betting?
pot is about 140 when facing the decision, 75 to call... in terms of working out % odds here is the total pot just the 140... so 75/140 or is it 140 + the 75 to call making it 75/215?
tbh it looks very marginal so i guess either option isn't too bad. Surely if you check raise there you check raise looking to get it all in though?
I see no problem with calling with the JTs there, would prefer position over the 3 better though or could consider 4 betting?
Comments
OK, following on from another couple of posts, I am going to put together a series of questions with what I believe to be an interesting hand.
The idea of the exercise is to get us thinking about the ways we play certain hands, whether we agree or disagree with some of the other views shown and ultimately just to add a bit of variety to the way we play the game. Taking on new ideas and adding them to your arsenal makes you a more versatile player, so hopefully you'll see an improvement in your game by contributing to the debate.
If you're new to the forum, don't be afraid to join in too! We're going to have players of all levels commenting on the play and in a lot of ways this hand might play differently on the microstakes cash games compared to a high stakes ones. The more views and opinions the better in my opinion!
OK, so to today's hand. Aggressive actions are in red, our actions have been bolded.
The background.
We've been playing this session for around an hour now and have been playing reasonably tight. The real pattern that has emerged is - helpfully - based on the Villain in this hand. He's been re-raising a lot of our opening bets and so far we've remained patient and folded alot. Our hand is Js-Ts, and when he raises us once again we decide it's time for us to make a stand...
Blinds and Stack sizes.
£0.25/£0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
UTG - £39.50
MP - £49.70
Hero (CO) - £117.70
Villain (BTN) - £103.35
SB - £52.85
BB- £69.25
Pre Flop: (Pot = £0.75) Hero is in the cut-off with Js-Ts
2 folds, Hero raises to £1.50, BTN raises to £5, 2 folds, Hero calls £3.50
Flop: (Pot = £10.75) Qs-8c-5s (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets £8, Hero raises to £26.50, BTN raises to £98.35 all in.
Question: What would you do? We're playing for our whole stack with a flush draw and a gutshot straight draw. Do you call or fold?
Also:
What do you think of the pre-flop defend with Js-Ts? Should we be doing this with stronger hands or smaller, more deceptive ones?
How about the play on the flop? Is check-raising here the best play or should we just call and try to make our hand before bloating the pot?
If the villian had a tight table image my decision would be more difficult, but with a clear pattern of re-raising, that's paid-off nicely so far, he's quite likely to be on a bluff, if he's on a draw it's not as good as ours. Folding would give the villian a big chip lead, he's got to be taken on sooner or later, I go for it now. (Knowing my luck he turns over something like As 9s and takes me out, but that's another matter!)
BTW This decision should be made without the assistance of pokerstove, in a tournament situation you won't be able to make use of mathmatical software aids!
Following the pattern in the post, I would have put the Villain on maybe a weak Ace so I would have folded to the all in as I would have presumed I was behind.
Sky Dave - Preflop is fine, i think folding would be worse considering how deep we are and the strength of our hand against a frequent 3bettor.
FlopYou have 40% equity against his range most likely. Why raise flop if you are gonna raise/fold? Seems like youre just deciding to give up 40% in that spot. If youre not comfortable getting it in dont raise. You should already know in your mind what youre gonna do if he shoves when you raise here. If you dont have a plan then dont raise.
Need around 35% equity to call- against aq you have about 48% equity, against qq you have about 34% and even against As 2s we have 30% equity so its a call.
From your description, it sounds like your a bit tiltty, and given that your more likely to shove and hope.
BUT, in my opinion, the correct play against an aggro play with position on you, is to call the flop bet of £8 and then re- evaluate on the turn. If you do this and the aggro player bets out, YOU can take control by shoving first, rather than calling off your stack with a draw.
discuss?
col
Oh, and I never ever tilt unless I am playing squash.
Quote: Our hand is Js-Ts, and when he raises us once again we decide it's time for us to make a stand...
IMO calling with jts in this spot 200bb deep is not making a stand..its pretty standard, if we were 100bb deep then a 4bet shove all-in is what i call making a stand ;-)
Its a pity i'm not 10 years younger, as i was a county standard squash player then and would have challenged you to a game( i might be able to teach you a few things as im a have done some coaching as well lol).
That does depend on how good you are though lol
When are you going to give us your wisdom on the two hands you've posted and comment on our replies.
col