I bet you are glad that someone else called so you could see his cards. Well done for getting away, I hope you went on to cash.
I would have found that very difficult to lay down if I was sure he hadnt seen his hand. Even with the player still to act, that hand is strong. My thinking would be that unless he has AA/KK, I am likely to be racing at worst, plus playing the unknown hand.
I have chips in the pot already, so with a 2nd caller, I am getting better than 3/1 for my call.
What would people here do in the exact same situation in the first level of the World Series of Poker main event? Posted by BrownnDog
Lol, Id prob fold aces there,
seriously though, personally, it should be more often a call there as in the £30 mtt, I would think I had an edge on over half of the field, but in wsop, I would be everyone elses value more than likely, so I would need to take those gambles every time.
In the heat of battle would I at wsop, lol, no way.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : I would fold because i'd gone all the way to america and it's a 10k buyin. 30quid down the casino with a bunch of numpties who don't understand mis-deals, snap fist pump shove. Posted by beaneh
Surely if you're playing a "bunch of numpties" then a player of your skill has a marked advantage and shouldn't be risking his tournament life with what may well be a coin flip (and is VERY unlikely to be more than 2/1 favourite).
This strikes me as clearly non-optimal even if we're playing for matchsticks.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : Surely if you're playing a "bunch of numpties" then a player of your skill has a marked advantage and shouldn't be risking his tournament life with what may well be a coin flip (and is VERY unlikely to be more than 2/1 favourite). This strikes me as clearly non-optimal even if we're playing for matchsticks. Posted by MereNovice
How can you ever just assume these are a "bunch of numpties". Just because they have thrown a strop and shoved all in blind? Im pretty sure the likes of Ziigmund and Isildur1 have done such things. You try telling them they are numpties. This could be your best chance to take them out. It's unlikely but you can't just assume things. Based on the info given It's a call.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : How can you ever just assume these are a "bunch of numpties". Just because they have thrown a strop and shoved all in blind? Im pretty sure the likes of Ziigmund and Isildur1 have done such things. You try telling them they are numpties. This could be your best chance to take them out. It's unlikely but you can't just assume things. Based on the info given It's a call. Posted by Strat91
It wasn't my choice of words. I was merely pointing out that if someone thought that they were a "bunch of numpties" (and hence would hopefully have a significant edge) then it would be non-optimal to take a race for 180bb right at the start of a tournament.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : It wasn't my choice of words. I was merely pointing out that if someone thought that they were a "bunch of numpties" (and hence would hopefully have a significant edge) then it would be non-optimal to take a race for 180bb right at the start of a tournament. Posted by MereNovice
I see what your saying but even if he was a numptie then are you really 62%-38% better than him?.. And even if you are, your giving the rest of the table a shot at taking hes chips too.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : Surely if you're playing a "bunch of numpties" then a player of your skill has a marked advantage and shouldn't be risking his tournament life with what may well be a coin flip (and is VERY unlikely to be more than 2/1 favourite). This strikes me as clearly non-optimal even if we're playing for matchsticks. Posted by MereNovice
Most live smaller buyin and one day tournies have crapshooty style structures to get them finished so the benefit of having and wielding a big stack is massive.
Someone mentioned what would be the worst, i'd probably get it in with QQ+, AK.
GOING ALL-IN 4TH HAND IN TO IT WITH ONLY ACE HIGH, NAH GET IT FOLDED THERES ALOT MORE TIME AND MUCH MORE BETTER POSITIONS JUST BE PATIENT. ON A POSITIVE HE HAS GIVEN HOW HE PLAYS AWAY A LOOSE MANIAC WITH TENDENCIES TO MAKE EMOTIONAL RATHER THEN INFORMED DECISIONS.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : I agree with the point you raised under optimal strategy and as I stated in my OP I can agree with the fold. From your reply I'm surmising that you haven't played against the fellow with Queens before (in other games apart from this tourney) and that was what I was referencing when I said 'blank canvas.' Some key points I'd just like to clear up: Was the tilt monkey making it obvious he was going to push all in blind before the Queens flatted your raise? How was the fellow with the Queens acting? Did he quickly call your initial raise, did he look at his cards for the first time after your raise and if so what was his reaction? Was he acting strong or weak? When Mr Tilty shoved did he get excited? How was he acting when you were in the tank? I can totally agree with the fold with an unknown quantity in the pot at this early stage and would of probably taken a similar line as you to try to avoid early flips to try and gain advantage of the edge I had over a longer period. Posted by TommyD
Sorry i missed a few of your questions tommy, no he didn't make it obvious he was going to shove.
The guy with queens checked his cards twice before calling me. Up to that point that was all i could tell you about his actions.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : Sorry i missed a few of your questions tommy, no he didn't make it obvious he was going to shove. The guy with queens checked his cards twice before calling me. Up to that point that was all i could tell you about his actions. When the shove was made he didn't even flinch Posted by kirstii
Yuck! Mr Queens sounds like a tight passive to me. I hate those guys early on in a tourney. Had you called he probably would of tanked before calling. Very good fold Kirstii.
Why is it a very good fold? Surely that is being results orientated? Posted by BlackFish3
yeah, i agree blackfish.. thing is , it is ++++EV to call here avery time. However, if you are not able to get out to casinos much to play live, or you want to make your visit last a bit longer or for other reasons, it is good to fold imo.
Deal or no deal. If you are there and you have 2 boxes left. One is £1, the other is £250,000. The banker offers you £110,000 for your box. What do you do?? It is +EV to say `no deal`.
You can have your +EV, and I will have £110,000 thanks
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : yeah, i agree blackfish.. thing is , it is ++++EV to call here avery time. However, if you are not able to get out to casinos much to play live, or you want to make your visit last a bit longer or for other reasons, it is good to fold imo. Deal or no deal. If you are there and you have 2 boxes left. One is £1, the other is £250,000. The banker offers you £110,000 for your box. What do you do?? It is +EV to say `no deal`. You can have your +EV, and I will have £110,000 thanks Posted by OMahonyO
Yea that's true but I just think things like that should stay out of a poker strategy section. Or they should have a place more as side considerations and not for a justification to 'snap fold'. Your analogy can be distinguished from the hand because in your analogy if we chose to take the £110k then we are guaranteed it. In the hand if we choose to pass up the offer to double up as a 67% favourite, we do not know that there will be any better spots. So for example we could play for 3 hours and shove with QQ, get called by AKs... so we could have the choice of playing for 3 hours and flipping or playing 1 hand and being guaranteed a 67% favourite in the long run.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : Yea that's true but I just think things like that should stay out of a poker strategy section. Or they should have a place more as side considerations and not for a justification to 'snap fold'. Your analogy can be distinguished from the hand because in your analogy if we chose to take the £110k then we are guaranteed it. In the hand if we choose to pass up the offer to double up as a 67% favourite, we do not know that there will be any better spots. So for example we could play for 3 hours and shove with QQ, get called by AKs... so we could have the choice of playing for 3 hours and flipping or playing 1 hand and being guaranteed a 67% favourite in the long run. Posted by BlackFish3
Yes , this is true. I did not think of the best analogy there, but you get my drift. I remember ages ago, I suggested having a psycology section, which seemed a good idea at the time, but now thinking about it, i dont think the traffic here is big enough. But yeah, there are definitely other considerations for me other than what is +EV or not.
In Response to Re: Would you call or fold? Live game : Yes , this is true. I did not think of the best analogy there, but you get my drift. I remember ages ago, I suggested having a psycology section, which seemed a good idea at the time, but now thinking about it, i dont think the traffic here is big enough. But yeah, there are definitely other considerations for me other than what is +EV or not. Posted by OMahonyO
Yea obviously there should be other considerations. Like if you couldn't afford to lose your BI etc... obviously it probably wasn't a good idea to register for the tourny if this was the case but that it's too late for that. So yea deffo other consideration such as enjoyment, I just assume poker strategy is concerned with optimal play in each situation. And then side considerations come into it. That's why I can't understand how it is ever a snap fold. It should probably be a snap call unless other factors come into play.
Comments
I would have found that very difficult to lay down if I was sure he hadnt seen his hand. Even with the player still to act, that hand is strong. My thinking would be that unless he has AA/KK, I am likely to be racing at worst, plus playing the unknown hand.
I have chips in the pot already, so with a 2nd caller, I am getting better than 3/1 for my call.
Wont be calling it in vegas though !
Lol, Id prob fold aces there,
seriously though, personally, it should be more often a call there as in the £30 mtt, I would think I had an edge on over half of the field, but in wsop, I would be everyone elses value more than likely, so I would need to take those gambles every time.
In the heat of battle would I at wsop, lol, no way.
Surely if you're playing a "bunch of numpties" then a player of your skill has a marked advantage and shouldn't be risking his tournament life with what may well be a coin flip (and is VERY unlikely to be more than 2/1 favourite).
This strikes me as clearly non-optimal even if we're playing for matchsticks.
I was merely pointing out that if someone thought that they were a "bunch of numpties" (and hence would hopefully have a significant edge) then it would be non-optimal to take a race for 180bb right at the start of a tournament.
GOING ALL-IN 4TH HAND IN TO IT WITH ONLY ACE HIGH, NAH GET IT FOLDED THERES ALOT MORE TIME AND MUCH MORE BETTER POSITIONS JUST BE PATIENT. ON A POSITIVE HE HAS GIVEN HOW HE PLAYS AWAY A LOOSE MANIAC WITH TENDENCIES TO MAKE EMOTIONAL RATHER THEN INFORMED DECISIONS.
BEST REGARDS
The guy with queens checked his cards twice before calling me. Up to that point that was all i could tell you about his actions.
When the shove was made he didn't even flinch
yeah, i agree blackfish.. thing is , it is ++++EV to call here avery time. However, if you are not able to get out to casinos much to play live, or you want to make your visit last a bit longer or for other reasons, it is good to fold imo.
Deal or no deal. If you are there and you have 2 boxes left. One is £1, the other is £250,000. The banker offers you £110,000 for your box. What do you do?? It is +EV to say `no deal`.
You can have your +EV, and I will have £110,000 thanks