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help and advice needed!

freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
edited May 2010 in The Poker Clinic

yes its me one of the forum wingers LOL, i would be very grateful for advice from all players on the following mater.

i have been with sky for 1 year and i am having a great time, on the tables and on the forum.  The past month i have hit a bad run on the cash tables, i only finished 2 buyins up (playing 6-8 tables 30 hours per week) in April where i normally average near 30 buyins pcm and this month i am -10 buyins already. 

I am the biggest critic of my own game, spending time looking at hand history, reading books and the forum always wanting to improve my game.  i have been looking closely at hand history over the past few weeks but the only thing i can see wrong is i am unlucky well most of the time sometimes i say WT F did i do that for.

my question is this what do i do now?
stay at my normal stakes and tell myself it will pass soon?
move down in stakes till the bad run passes?
move up in stakes and hope for the best?
try playing mtt or D.Y.M?
start all over again, withdraw my roll leaving a roll for 40/50nl and rebuild from their?

any advice will be great, many thanks jimmy.  BE LUCKY.

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    IRISHROVERIRISHROVER Member Posts: 7,606
    edited May 2010


     i say do dym !

    and slowly edge your back to your cash games !
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    BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited May 2010
    Well you are obviously a winning cash player... so no need to play a different less profitable format. Moving down stakes always helps though, so i would suggest move down and/or cut down on the number of tables you are playing. Dont want to go tooooooo auto pilot eh?
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    DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,927
    edited May 2010
    In Response to help and advice needed!:
    yes its me one of the forum wingers LOL, i would be very grateful for advice from all players on the following mater. i have been with sky for 1 year and i am having a great time, on the tables and on the forum.  The past month i have hit a bad run on the cash tables, i only finished 2 buyins up (playing 6-8 tables 30 hours per week) in April where i normally average near 30 buyins pcm and this month i am -10 buyins already.  I am the biggest critic of my own game, spending time looking at hand history, reading books and the forum always wanting to improve my game.  i have been looking closely at hand history over the past few weeks but the only thing i can see wrong is i am unlucky well most of the time sometimes i say WT F did i do that for. my question is this what do i do now? stay at my normal stakes and tell myself it will pass soon? move down in stakes till the bad run passes? move up in stakes and hope for the best? try playing mtt or D.Y.M? start all over again, withdraw my roll leaving a roll for 40/50nl and rebuild from their? any advice will be great, many thanks jimmy.  BE LUCKY.
    Posted by freechips1
    NOT THIS !!!! - Got Boonicon bak dont need u as well.

    Ur minus 8 buy ins over 5 weeks? - Might be bad compared to your usual sky high standards, but it's hardly a crisis....

    You're obviously still playing well to limit the damage, and you quote you are happy having studied the hand histories....so there's no need to change IMO. You been playing the nl100 level for months now, so if u average 30 bi per month, and ur -8 within 5 weeks thats like a pin pr/ick on your BR? (also winning that 3k or whatever shud have cushioned the blow) - Just carry on for me, changing levels aint gonna change ur luck.

    DOHH


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    DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47 Member Posts: 381
    edited May 2010

    If i was you i would play less tables and try to improve my winrate so i was crushing 100nl and then move up...rinse and repeat.

    But then again you earn more than the national average wage from poker and its not your only income, so if its not broke..why fix it.
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    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
     i say do dym ! and slowly edge your back to your cash games !
    Posted by IRISHROVER
    i tried a few DYM and a scary last night, the scary was fun and i won it. the 3 DYM i didnt cash in any, all the hands i went out on sort of played themself.
    i did find it a little boring but the main thing i would strugle with would be multitabling with the blinds all differant on each table.
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    penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,094
    edited May 2010
    Just dont come over to MTT !

    Its tough enough already.



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    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    Just dont come over to MTT ! Its tough enough already.
    Posted by penguin7
    mtt is good fun, thats why i play mtt.  i think it would be very hard to show a profit 10/11 months of the year only plying mtt. penguin you know anythink about sharkscope? i won that 3k last month and it didnt go on to it, any ideas why?
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    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    In Response to help and advice needed! : NOT THIS !!!! - Got Boonicon bak dont need u as well. Ur minus 8 buy ins over 5 weeks? - Might be bad compared to your usual sky high standards, but it's hardly a crisis.... You're obviously still playing well to limit the damage, and you quote you are happy having studied the hand histories....so there's no need to change IMO. You been playing the nl100 level for months now, so if u average 30 bi per month, and ur -8 within 5 weeks thats like a pin pr/ick on your BR? (also winning that 3k or whatever shud have cushioned the blow) - Just carry on for me, changing levels aint gonna change ur luck. DOHH
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    it hasnt hurt my roll, the 3k i won i took it off as no need to have a large ammount on a poker account.
    im still very unsure what to do.
    i will mess about tonight and play a few mtt and a few cash tables so i might see you l8r on, LOL.
  • Options
    scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed! : mtt is good fun, thats why i play mtt.  i think it would be very hard to show a profit 10/11 months of the year only plying mtt. penguin you know anythink about sharkscope? i won that 3k last month and it didnt go on to it, any ideas why?
    Posted by freechips1
    did you satellite in?  for some weird reason Sharkscope doesn't recognise tournie cashes when you have satellited in....

    but onto the question...are you noticing anything different about how the regs are playing versus you?  is it possible that regs have adjusted/noticed a read on you?

    is your recent form due to coolers/being rivered by lucky randoms?

    i would imagine that you are just going thru some good old variance tho....if you feel the need to drop down then do so.  also taking a few days break doesn't hurt either.
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    penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,094
    edited May 2010
    Yes, Sharkscope does have a problem recognising anything involving satellites. My stats are missing about 5/6k in winnings, but I dont take a lot of notice of it.

    I think its just normal variance for you. If you are still enjoying playing your normal cash level carry on and it will turn. Personally it would bore me grinding away against the same players night after night.

    It is tough making a profit consistently from MTT.. two years ago I could play 4 or 5 a day and cash in most of them, but the standard of play has gone up so much. It took me a while to adjust and I had a big downswing last year. I think I am now playing as well as ever, but my ROI has halved.

    A big difference for me between MTT and cash is that I can comfortably play 4 or 5 cash tables at the same time, but to play good tourny poker I need to play a maximum of 2 at once. More than that and I lose focus on the strategy and chip dynamics.
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    BooniconBoonicon Member Posts: 130
    edited May 2010
    Hi Jimmy,

    Cash seems to be your strongest / most profitable game if im not mistaken, so for me I can't particually see the point in moving over to stts.  I think it depends on your mindset from here: if your still playing your A game, and the loss hasn't affected you emotionally, I would prob just stay where you are.  As you have described, your just waiting for the varience to turn, and it prob isn't too serious yet considering you havn't lost too many BI's.
     However, if you get to the point where the losses are really getting to you I would advise moving down for a while.  Ive noticed some of the realy good players often do it, so theres certainly no shame in moving down, just means that more of your bankroll will still be intact when you get back to making profit.

    I know you already know all this, just try ti ride it out.
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    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    the regs r playing the same vs me, a few of the regs like to float me alot a little too much, its the same 1 or 2 always calling me pre in position and sometime they will be sucsesful and others not.  I need to work out the best way of getting value but also not letting myself get outdrawn by someone floating who picks up a draw on the flop or turn and also fighting back with no hand on the turn (most of the time its all in unless sat deep).
    most of my hands have not been major beats when sat deep had loads of coolers but one of the things thats getting me down is i cant win a race or a 60/40 norm vs a shortstack pushing with mid pairs vs my AK/AQ or other way around.
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    beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    the regs r playing the same vs me, a few of the regs like to float me alot a little too much, its the same 1 or 2 always calling me pre in position and sometime they will be sucsesful and others not.  I need to work out the best way of getting value but also not letting myself get outdrawn by someone floating who picks up a draw on the flop or turn and also fighting back with no hand on the turn (most of the time its all in unless sat deep). most of my hands have not been major beats when sat deep had loads of coolers but one of the things thats getting me down is i cant win a race or a 60/40 norm vs a shortstack pushing with mid pairs vs my AK/AQ or other way around.
    Posted by freechips1

    Jimmy I mean nothing rude.


    You were running good. Your sample size is very small. You could run bad for 6 months and have 6 losing months AND be a winning player, that is why variance plays such a big part in this game. Try to keep playing your best and get better and don't think about the results just about the reasoning behind your plays.
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    BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited May 2010
    Please don't play dyms.

    Maybe you could try c betting flop and check raising turn oop when you keep getting floated?
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    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed! : Jimmy I mean nothing rude. You were running good. Your sample size is very small. You could run bad for 6 months and have 6 losing months AND be a winning player, that is why variance plays such a big part in this game. Try to keep playing your best and get better and don't think about the results just about the reasoning behind your plays.
    Posted by beaneh

    you say my sample size is small.  i, and im sure many others would say that playing 6-8 tables 30 hours a week for near 6 months is surely enough time for variance to take effect (thats only at 100nl).
    as always i have respect for you and your game and will take on board any advice.
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    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    Please don't play dyms. Maybe you could try c betting flop and check raising turn oop when you keep getting floated?
    Posted by BlackFish3
    i dont think DYM is the answer, i have respect for anyone who can grind a profit from playing these.
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    beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed! : you say my sample size is small.  i, and im sure many others would say that playing 6-8 tables 30 hours a week for near 6 months is surely enough time for variance to take effect (thats only at 100nl). as always i have respect for you and your game and will take on board any advice.
    Posted by freechips1

    6 tables x 30 x 24 x 40 (hands an hour at a rough and conservative guess)= 172'800 hands played roughly.

    200k hand sample sizes is a good sample but when you look at bigger sample sizes of other winning players around you can see 2-300k hand break even stretches.

    Use this site to have a look at the variance a winning player can experience.


    Your winrate is how many £'s you win for every 100 hands you play. 
    Your standard deviation is basically how swingy on average you are, the more loose aggressive the higher the number this is, but also a poor standard of oppo can allow you to reduce it.
    Hands is the size of the sample you wanna look at.
    Players is the number of lines to play, too many and you cant see anything, too few and you don't see the full spread of results.


    Try entering low winrates, high sd's, large sample sizes and also negative winrates and see the differences. 

    Over a 500k sample you'll see some samples of winning players which have massive break even and losing periods. 
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    cottladcottlad Member Posts: 439
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
     i say do dym ! and slowly edge your back to your cash games !
    Posted by IRISHROVER
    If there's 1 way to ensure you really scrue up your cash game it's to go play DYM's lol.
    Leave well alone if you want my advice. 
    Seems like the variance monster has you at the moment.  My March was beyond horrific and April faired only slighy better,,,,,,,i have played through it though and things are now much better altho that's probably just put the mockers on things lol.
    It seems yr analyzing yr game for leaks which is pretty much all you can do.  Just make sure you're not playing too cautiously as it's easy to do that when you start expecting yr AA to be cracked every time or your overpair to meet sets etc etc.
    If the money you are currently losing is significant then drop down a level and play through it.  If your still amply rolled then i'd just say stick at it and things will turn.

    Don't drop down too low though as playing micro stakes will probably negatively affect yr game nearly as much as playing dym's
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    BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed! : i dont think DYM is the answer, i have respect for anyone who can grind a profit from playing these.
    Posted by freechips1
    ya if you are winning at cash no need to play dyms... dyms are more for beginners imo. Or for people who want to grind out a small but consistent profit.
  • Options
    freechips1freechips1 Member Posts: 861
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed!:
    In Response to Re: help and advice needed! : 6 tables x 30 x 24 x 40 (hands an hour at a rough and conservative guess)= 172'800 hands played roughly. 200k hand sample sizes is a good sample but when you look at bigger sample sizes of other winning players around you can see 2-300k hand break even stretches. Use this site to have a look at the variance a winning player can experience. http://www.pokervariancesimulator.fr/ Your winrate is how many £'s you win for every 100 hands you play.  Your standard deviation is basically how swingy on average you are, the more loose aggressive the higher the number this is, but also a poor standard of oppo can allow you to reduce it. Hands is the size of the sample you wanna look at. Players is the number of lines to play, too many and you cant see anything, too few and you don't see the full spread of results. Try entering low winrates, high sd's, large sample sizes and also negative winrates and see the differences.  Over a 500k sample you'll see some samples of winning players which have massive break even and losing periods. 
    Posted by beaneh

    im very confused. i have no idea what all this is. ok lets say im +7k this year thats not including any
    cash 4 points so thats 17 is wks so its 510 hours of 6-8 tables, who will it work?
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