IMO i would fold this as we have only invested 60p but i understand where some players are coming from saying it is a great flop for us...which it is but thats mainly because it gives us pot equity which allows us to semi-bluff and hopefully take down the dead money in the pot. (Fold Equity + Pot Equity = Bluff...villians all-in so we have no fold equity)
As I dont play cash its hard for me to say! In a MTT I would call all day long! In a DYM if I had a good stack against someone who could do me real damage I would fold all day long!
I shove my stack in the middle and high five the dealer. It's a cash game dude, you've got more than enough odds to go for it and if you miss, reload. Simples. Posted by TommyD
+1 i really cant see how people are sayin this is a fold! fair enough players like Beaneh, Zing, Mahony are all goo solid players who multi table who look for the nuts in every hand before they put there cash in the middle! but i totally agree its a cash game, its costin you 1 buy-in for a chance to at least triple up and we dont even know what the other 2 players in the hand are gonna do? why play Ax suited get the flop you want against multiple opponents and then fold it?? you dont hit reload simple! you hit you have at least tripled your stack!
i don't think either play is wrong if you feel lucky and the pot odds are there call away if you don't feel lucky or pot odds arent there then you fold simple.
Just to add a little footnote to my original reply, I doubt I would find myself in this spot. Firstly I hate playing raggy aces, suited or otherwise so I may not complete from the small blind or call the BB's min raise. Secondly, this situation is ripe for a squeeze play. Dohhhhhhh, you get two opportunities to squeeze, were you tempted?
I dont think everyone can say we will tripple are stack when the first player has only put in £4 and has £20 behind so is definely not pot commited. Posted by DeuceAK-47
can see what your sayin, but the guy has pot bet £4.50 against 5 other players so he has to be pretty confident he is holdin the best hand. the other bloke shoves. if Dohhhhhh shoves the pot will be around £55 (not to mention the other 2 guys who may have a piece of it too) so the bloke who bet the £4.50 will be asked to to put in a extra £20 into a pot which would be at least £55 on a hand which he obviously felt was strong enough to pot bet against 5 other opponents! so id guess he is callin mate! ....
Just to add a little footnote to my original reply, I doubt I would find myself in this spot. Firstly I hate playing raggy aces, suited or otherwise so I may not complete from the small blind or call the BB's min raise. Secondly, this situation is ripe for a squeeze play. Dohhhhhhh, you get two opportunities to squeeze, were you tempted? Posted by TommyD
I dont think there is anything wrong with playin suited aces in a CASH game against MULTIPLE opponents. obviously just chuck it away if you dont pick up your flush draw on the flop.
....and sometimes when you do hit ur flushdraw on the flop you still fold!! lol
Im not interested in building the pot with ace 7 suited out of the blinds, at 30nl tommy - nor is the pot big enough to risk squeezing to take it down there n then.
Gameplan at this level is play solid, make hands, and bet them strongly to get paid off. Obviously I cant resist the occasional bluff.
With ace7 suited, Its a hand thats drawing to the nuts, and with the way the action went pre flop, I just couldnt resist having a look, I think it would be a mistake to fold it.
In Response to Re: Okay, big draw, laid down........ : can see what your sayin, but the guy has pot bet £4.50 against 5 other players so he has to be pretty confident he is holdin the best hand. the other bloke shoves. if Dohhhhhh shoves the pot will be around £55 (not to mention the other 2 guys who may have a piece of it too) so the bloke who bet the £4.50 will be asked to to put in a extra £20 into a pot which would be at least £55 on a hand which he obviously felt was strong enough to pot bet against 5 other opponents! so id guess he is callin mate! .... Posted by Eagle26
Three players check...so their going to bet with a queen or a 9 with a good kicker and then would most likely fold to two all-ins.
....and sometimes when you do hit ur flushdraw on the flop you still fold!! lol Im not interested in building the pot with ace 7 suited out of the blinds, at 30nl tommy - nor is the pot big enough to risk squeezing to take it down there n then. Gameplan at this level is play solid, make hands, and bet them strongly to get paid off. Obviously I cant resist the occasional bluff. With ace7 suited, Its a hand thats drawing to the nuts, and with the way the action went pre flop, I just couldnt resist having a look, I think it would be a mistake to fold it. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
In Response to Re: Okay, big draw, laid down........ : can see what your sayin, but the guy has pot bet £4.50 against 5 other players so he has to be pretty confident he is holdin the best hand. the other bloke shoves. if Dohhhhhh shoves the pot will be around £55 (not to mention the other 2 guys who may have a piece of it too) so the bloke who bet the £4.50 will be asked to to put in a extra £20 into a pot which would be at least £55 on a hand which he obviously felt was strong enough to pot bet against 5 other opponents! so id guess he is callin mate! .... Posted by Eagle26
Maybe betting into 5 players and having you continue will scare him off though no?
In Response to Re: Okay, big draw, laid down........: Just to add a little footnote to my original reply, I doubt I would find myself in this spot. Firstly I hate playing raggy aces, suited or otherwise so I may not complete from the small blind or call the BB's min raise. Secondly, this situation is ripe for a squeeze play. Dohhhhhhh, you get two opportunities to squeeze, were you tempted? Posted by TommyD
Raising would be bad at any point, doh has played this hand perfectly on every street imo if he folds the flop.
We have no idea how any one else will act behind us therefore we cant call here because we'd be losing a little bit of money each time we do. If someone had called all in between or acted out of turn like a live game then happy days it's not fishing if you've got the correct odds (or better) but when you don't you just have to fold.
In a tournament you should be even more against making the call here because you cant just reload and top up your stack. So in cash games you could provide more reasons as to why you should possibly make the call but based purely on maths it is a fold.
so Beaneh your sayin if the guy who pot bets actually shoved like the other guy then this is now a correct call?? so i assuming your going to answer 'yes' therefore its already the correct call because the guy who pot bets is callin, im 100% convinced he's callin. infact i would like Dohhhhhhh to put the rest of this hand up and see if he did call or not (i have no idea, all i know about this hand is doh folded) ...if this guy who pot bet the flop folds to the shove then i will never write anything else on this forum!! Like ive said before im fully aware your a good player/winning player and i have no doubts at all your a much better player than I am, your mathematical understanding of the game is outstanding (although in my opinion maths is idiotic- understanding basic pot odds is more than enough to be a good solid player) but to fold this hand in a CASH game for 1 buy-in with 5 other people in the pot is too nitty! the implied odds make this a call.
In Response to Re: Okay, big draw, laid down........ : Maybe betting into 5 players and having you continue will scare him off though no? In Response to Re: Okay, big draw, laid down........ : Raising would be bad at any point, doh has played this hand perfectly on every street imo if he folds the flop. We have no idea how any one else will act behind us therefore we cant call here because we'd be losing a little bit of money each time we do. If someone had called all in between or acted out of turn like a live game then happy days it's not fishing if you've got the correct odds (or better) but when you don't you just have to fold. In a tournament youshould be even more against making the call here because you cant just reload and top up your stack. So in cash games you could provide more reasons as to why you should possibly make the call but based purely on maths it is a fold. Posted by beaneh
Comments
IMO i would fold this as we have only invested 60p but i understand where some players are coming from saying it is a great flop for us...which it is but thats mainly because it gives us pot equity which allows us to semi-bluff and hopefully take down the dead money in the pot. (Fold Equity + Pot Equity = Bluff...villians all-in so we have no fold equity)
Just to add a little footnote to my original reply, I doubt I would find myself in this spot. Firstly I hate playing raggy aces, suited or otherwise so I may not complete from the small blind or call the BB's min raise. Secondly, this situation is ripe for a squeeze play. Dohhhhhhh, you get two opportunities to squeeze, were you tempted?
Posted by TommyD
We have no idea how any one else will act behind us therefore we cant call here because we'd be losing a little bit of money each time we do. If someone had called all in between or acted out of turn like a live game then happy days it's not fishing if you've got the correct odds (or better) but when you don't you just have to fold.
so Beaneh your sayin if the guy who pot bets actually shoved like the other guy then this is now a correct call?? so i assuming your going to answer 'yes' therefore its already the correct call because the guy who pot bets is callin, im 100% convinced he's callin. infact i would like Dohhhhhhh to put the rest of this hand up and see if he did call or not (i have no idea, all i know about this hand is doh folded) ...if this guy who pot bet the flop folds to the shove then i will never write anything else on this forum!!
Like ive said before im fully aware your a good player/winning player and i have no doubts at all your a much better player than I am, your mathematical understanding of the game is outstanding (although in my opinion maths is idiotic- understanding basic pot odds is more than enough to be a good solid player) but to fold this hand in a CASH game for 1 buy-in with 5 other people in the pot is too nitty! the implied odds make this a call.
This on the other hand I totally 100% agree with!