Right 3 options. Call? - no way, Aint calling for a gutshot, this is what I'd be doing if I took this option. Fold? - after raising pre flop, for someone to donk lead into me and expect to take it down? too soft. Leaves raise...which I find is normally the answer.... So I raise.... Raise call? - Would be the worst call of all time. Raise and turn the internet off? - Maybe.....Log back on again and hope it got thru. No? Soooo..... Raise fold? yup Whats your point are you saying that if Im raising, i shud be doing so for value? Of those 300 times I make a mistake, 275 times I get it through and take the pot. This time, he had the goods, wp, nh, move on Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Well yeh im deffo not raising with the intention of getting the money all in as I feel I have the best hand? I just want him to fold, what other option do I have in that situation other than fold? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
I ink its a pretty simple hand to play for the pkt tens point of view.
Ive raised pre in position with a good starting hand 6 handed.
Ive used my position to ask a question on the flop, and been given the answer that my opponent has a strong enough hand to put all his money in, therefore I cant be good and its an easy fold?
Where's the mistake there?
I call....ok, why am I calling? The board is horrid for tens, I have 4 outs, if they miss, he leads again, Ive paid £1.80 just to fold the turn.
I'll keep raising there neway - another thing we will disagree forever on
i dont like the flat call pre, the guy behind you BB is always gonna call and why do wanna play AA 3 way? you dont and never do. you are also OOP witch makes the hand so hard to play. my advice for what its worth, you can slow play AA. you open on the button and get 3 bet by blinds or early pos limper, then in this spot you can flat the 3 bet as i will hide the strenth of your hand. most important thing is pos an get it HU. Posted by freechips1
I have to disagree with this. From my experience, the bb is not always calling here, and as Ms Chips said, I certainly do not think only complete nits fold here.
I do understand what you are saying though about not wanting it to go 3 way, and I didnt. Howver, I thought it was worth the risk at the time as I felt that the benefit of disguising my hand outweighed the disadvantage of the possibility of the hand going 3 way. As I said before, I hardly ever make this play. Is it so bad to mix it up a bit even if it means you are taking more of a risk from time to time.
and as Ms Chips said, I certainly do not think only complete nits fold here. Posted by OMahonyO
Mahoney Mahony Mahoney. Dont say I said things when I didn't. The point I was making is that without any knowledge of the BB being a nit I wouldn't flat the raise. Otherwise it is a risk I wouldn't take. In fact to take it further. I don't think it is totally necessary against a UTG open for profit.
I ink its a pretty simple hand to play for the pkt tens point of view. Ive raised pre in position with a good starting hand 6 handed. Ive used my position to ask a question on the flop, and been given the answer that my opponent has a strong enough hand to put all his money in, therefore I cant be good and its an easy fold? Where's the mistake there? I call....ok, why am I calling? The board is horrid for tens, I have 4 outs, if they miss, he leads again, Ive paid £1.80 just to fold the turn. I'll keep raising there neway - another thing we will disagree forever on Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Doh Im with you. I don't know how many times they think Mahony is bluff or light raising all in with a massive overbet. It's a snap fold because my guess is never.
In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop : Mahoney Mahony Mahoney. Dont say I said things when I didn't. The point I was making is that without any knowledge of the BB being a nit I wouldn't flat the raise. Otherwise it is a risk I wouldn't take. In fact to take it further. I don't think it is totally necessary against a UTG open for profit. or whatever your name is lol. Posted by Ms_Chips
missed chips, misfits, tizpizd, yes you are right, you didnt say that exactly, it was what i presumed you meant i suppose. But Im sticking by my guns in that I dont need any knowledge of the bb whatsoever to still make this play. I know what people are saying, its just the way it comes across is that the bb is calling here with any two.
I think its a pretty simple hand to play for the pkt tens point of view. Ive raised pre in position with a good starting hand 6 handed. Ive used my position to ask a question on the flop, and been given the answer that my opponent has a strong enough hand to put all his money in, therefore I cant be good and its an easy fold? Where's the mistake there? I call....ok, why am I calling? The board is horrid for tens, I have 4 outs, if they miss, he leads again, Ive paid £1.80 just to fold the turn. I'll keep raising there neway - another thing we will disagree forever on Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Well said! I totally agree Dohhhhhhh, in fact I wrote it all out but took too long over it! I'm still way too slow on the forum!!! lol
In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop : missed chips, misfits, tizpizd, yes you are right, you didnt say that exactly, it was what i presumed you meant i suppose. But Im sticking by my guns in that I dont need any knowledge of the bb whatsoever to still make this play. I know what people are saying, its just the way it comes across is that the bb is calling here with any two. or whatever your name is ;-) Posted by OMahonyO
Sorry Mahony I just realised you were not asking for advice on slowplaying aces ( I just presumed that because of the thread title and you already know your answer to that) So yes donk bet everytime on that board.
But more imprtantly I think Oynutter has a nice car. lol
I raised to make him fold and found out I couldn't possibly be winning so I had to fold. myself. D'ohh !!! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
You want to be raising for value, or as a bluff because you perceive there to be a lot of hands that you can fold out that a) beat you or that b) have good equity against you. In this instance on this draw heavy a board it's kind of unlikely that once he bets out hes going to fold so by raising 2nd pair here you've turned a good made hand which is beating all fd and lower pair and draw hands into a bluff. However your opponent continues you aren't going to like it on the turn. If when you raise he is jamming in with any kind of draw then your making a big mistake in folding your TT.
Calling the lead allows you to a) see the turn b) see how he reacts c) loses the least against the strongest parts of his leading range and d) on a brick turn you reduce all his draw hands equity massively.
Yes there will be some turns that 'you don't like' eg a flush card; you then have to decide if they are capable of bluffing and if they are how often do they bluff.
In Response to Re: Slowplaying aces pre flop : You want to be raising for value, or as a bluff because you perceive there to be a lot of hands that you can fold out that a) beat you or that b) have good equity against you. In this instance on this draw heavy a board it's kind of unlikely that once he bets out hes going to fold so by raising 2nd pair here you've turned a good made hand which is beating all fd and lower pair and draw hands into a bluff. However your opponent continues you aren't going to like it on the turn. If when you raise he is jamming in with any kind of draw then your making a big mistake in folding your TT. Calling the lead allows you to a) see the turn b) see how he reacts c) loses the least against the strongest parts of his leading range and d) on a brick turn you reduce all his draw hands equity massively. Yes there will be some turns that 'you don't like' eg a flush card; you then have to decide if they are capable of bluffing and if they are how often do they bluff. Posted by beaneh
I would generally just call for those reasons but it depends on the dynamic between the two players as against Beaneh i might raise for thin value (also do it with kj and qj) to help merge my range.
Is there any arguement for Mahony to flat Dohhhhhhh's re-raise on the flop?? personally i wouldnt have flat called out of position pre-flop especially as its probably bringing in the BB, but as played when he leads out on the flop, doh re-raises other guy folds i would have been tempted to flat call, check any blank turn and let doh fire again. ok its risky but if the intention was to try and slow play from the start i would have probably gone down this route-risk/reward type thing!...just a thought anyway, probably wrong lol
Comments
what happens if he leads out when he hits a flush draw or a straight draw or bottom pair?! and in position we just raise fold our made hand??
I have to disagree with this. From my experience, the bb is not always calling here, and as Ms Chips said, I certainly do not think only complete nits fold here.
or whatever your name is lol.
or whatever your name is ;-)
But more imprtantly I think Oynutter has a nice car. lol
Is there any arguement for Mahony to flat Dohhhhhhh's re-raise on the flop?? personally i wouldnt have flat called out of position pre-flop especially as its probably bringing in the BB, but as played when he leads out on the flop, doh re-raises other guy folds i would have been tempted to flat call, check any blank turn and let doh fire again. ok its risky but if the intention was to try and slow play from the start i would have probably gone down this route-risk/reward type thing!...just a thought anyway, probably wrong lol