Did I play this bad or just unlucky..

GliterBabe

Not sure if I can play this hand any differently, please let me know your views.. I put Villain on a flopped set...

k88moss	Small blind		£1.00	£1.00	£221.55
rizo575	Big blind		£2.00	£3.00	£148.00
	Your hole cards	7 8
GliterBabe	Raise		£8.00	£11.00	£490.99
PokerRyder	Fold
Villian	Call		£8.00	£19.00	£503.88
gadgerno1	Fold
k88moss	Fold
rizo575	Fold
Flop
		10 6 9
GliterBabe	Bet		£16.00	£35.00	£474.99
Villain	Raise		£42.00	£77.00	£461.88
GliterBabe	Call		£26.00	£103.00	£448.99
Turn
		7
GliterBabe	Check
Villain	Bet		£54.00	£157.00	£407.88
GliterBabe	Raise		£158.00	£315.00	£290.99
Villain	Call		£104.00	£419.00	£303.88
River
		5
GliterBabe	All-in		£290.99	£709.99	£0.00
Villain	Call		£290.99	£1000.98	£12.89
GliterBabe	Show	7 8
Villain	Show	10 J
Villlain	Win	Flush to the Jack	£999.18		£1012.07

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HairyBot

Should have re-raised him on the flop

beaneh

I open suited connectors UTG advertising ftw

scotty77

if you really put him on a flopped set, then why the need to flat call his flop raise?  no ones folding a set on the flop here.

or were you trying to pot control on later streets should the board pair up...

lynx3ffect

I think 3 betting the flop is best, as you put him on a set you want him to get his money in before scare cards come....I see the reasoning for flatting as you arent scared of any turn but you have to think that villain would be if he has a set and a card like the 7 comes and you keep betting he would have to fold....

so, after you flat...if you are correctly putting him on a set I dont see the value in the c/r as he cant continue as the odds of him improving are 5/1 and hes getting 3/1 on a call so i'd prefer a lead out on the turn (the fact you posted results makes its really awkward to explain that as im thinkin of what he has now!)...

anyway, the river im leaning toward c/c or c/f depending on bet size....hes never calling with worse so the set you put him on is on his bike, all you have is a bluff catcher or a split so i guess c/c half pot or fold to a shove

beaneh

This is like a beginners bad beat thread.

FOLD FLOP OBV

scotty77

anyway, the river im leaning toward c/c or c/f depending on bet size....hes never calling with worse so the set you put him on is on his bike, all you have is a bluff catcher or a split so i guess c/c half pot or fold to a shove

and that is why you don't put the showdown cards in HHs people

GliterBabe

Yeah Scotty, exactly that if turn pairs I have massive fold equity as we were both 250 BB deep. Looking back I should have just shipped turn..RR flop in hind- sight would have been better but I saw the bigger PICTURE ...( Which saw my mouse flying through it )...

Patching99

If a micro stake player posted this, can't help thinking the replies would be:
Bad beat, you know you did nothing wrong, post some decent hands etc. but a lot less polite.

FWIW I shove turn but only because this is profitable at 4NL.  At that level I check the river and cry like a baby. ;-)

DOHHHHHHH

Q/ Is there EVER a case in cash, to say, right, the pot is big enough now, I dont care if I have the best hand, the pot is v big, the board is scary, I don't want to continue with the hand, so I will take it away now?

Am I gonna get crucified for this?

Im obv looking at the pot as a nl30 player and the money is effecting my thinking right?

My instinct reading it before reading any comments was, get him to fold on the turn - or if not, make him pay all he has to hit his draw, obv Im sure I hav the best hand, but so many rivers are gonna cost me the pot, plus the rest o my stack probably, coz the river becomes unfoldable unless the board pairs?

Is a shove stupid? I'd shove at nl30 but obv thats different, as top pair snap calls me.....

beaneh

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

If a micro stake player posted this, can't help thinking the replies would be: Bad beat, you know you did nothing wrong, post some decent hands etc. but a lot less polite. FWIW I shove turn but only because this is profitable at 4NL.  At that level I check the river and cry like a baby. ;-)
Posted by Patching99

see :-

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

This is like a beginners bad beat thread. FOLD FLOP OBV
Posted by beaneh

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

Q/ Is there EVER a case in cash, to say, right, the pot is big enough now, I dont care if I have the best hand, the pot is v big, the board is scary, I don't want to continue with the hand, so I will take it away now? Am I gonna get crucified for this? Im obv looking at the pot as a nl30 player and the money is effecting my thinking right? My instinct reading it before reading any comments was, get him to fold on the turn - or if not, make him pay all he has to hit his draw, obv Im sure I hav the best hand, but so many rivers are gonna cost me the pot, plus the rest o my stack probably, coz the river becomes unfoldable unless the board pairs? Is a shove stupid? I'd shove at nl30 but obv thats different, as top pair snap calls me.....
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

you aren't playing against the board or the size of  the pot you are playing against your opponents range of hands. this is a £130 pot at nl30 it's not that big.

the game is the game, big blinds are the same regardless of what level or what denomination the big blinds are in.

why does the river become unfoldable? you cant put him on a hand that beats you and fold ever? 

shoving the turn is fine. 

extra thoughts- what do you do on the flop with AA instead of 78. what do you do with T9 etc. it's easy when we have a straight.

as I said before I think this is just GB advertising his utg range and the fact that the 1/2 games are juicy as ****.

DOHHHHHHH

Yeh point taken, I sorta started with a question in my head and then tried to refer to the hand as an example - the pot isnt rly that big in terms of bb's.

I wud deffo shove though - but maybe thats so transparent at that level and is the play someone who wud make when they really don't know.

My initial question about a pot ever being big enough to just kill there and then and lose value - is a basic bankroll/scared money problem.

If he did shove the turn - the other guy shud fold right? and we don't want him to? - do we?

This getting value thing really is doing my hed in and costing me, leading to outdraws, horrid spots, and if anything, losing me value expecting bluffs to continue. I really can't get my head around it.

One thing thats inproved is Im value betting alot of rivers when checked to me with weaker hands, even thats going really well, Its getting value down the streets that I'm struggling with. Extracting on the river is kinda safe, it feels safe, coz If I get raised, I only have to call one....

Im a rubbish turn player - pretty confident with the rest of my game atm.

shaun09

I wish i was confident with my play lol

beaneh

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

Yeh point taken, I sorta started with a question in my head and then tried to refer to the hand as an example - the pot isnt rly that big in terms of bb's. I wud deffo shove though - but maybe thats so transparent at that level and is the play someone who wud make when they really don't know. My initial question about a pot ever being big enough to just kill there and then and lose value - is a basic bankroll/scared money problem. If he did shove the turn - the other guy shud fold right? and we don't want him to? - do we? This getting value thing really is doing my hed in and costing me, leading to outdraws, horrid spots, and if anything, losing me value expecting bluffs to continue. I really can't get my head around it. One thing thats inproved is Im value betting alot of rivers when checked to me with weaker hands, even thats going really well, Its getting value down the streets that I'm struggling with. Extracting on the river is kinda safe, it feels safe, coz If I get raised, I only have to call one.... Im a rubbish turn player - pretty confident with the rest of my game atm.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

bu-gger I just typed out a long post and then misclicked and went off to some silly blog so now have lost it.

IN summary.

yes br constraints can affect how you play but that's bad.

c/shoving the turn isn't too  bad, it depends what reads you have as to whether you can make c/c re-evaluate more profitable than c/shoving the turn. 

value bet when you can put your opponents on worse hands that CAN CALL A BET.

DOHHHHHHH

HI - JACK !!

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
prinect	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£64.67
revieyears	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£32.32
	Your hole cards	A 10
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£1.20	£1.65	£24.72
xxx	Call		£1.20	£2.85	£20.94
BOSSMAM	Fold
prinect	Fold
revieyears	Fold
Flop
		10 5 9
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£1.80	£4.65	£22.92
xxx	Call		£1.80	£6.45	£19.14
Turn
		4
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£5.10	£11.55	£17.82
xxx	Call		£5.10	£16.65	£14.04
River
		J

DOHHHH ?????

Hapened 2 mins ago, in 2 minds, as Im oop, as Id hate to face a raise, and wud much rather c/c than have to bet fold....

U v betting here? notes....1 sec...

"Called down the streets with 2 overs and checked behind the river"

"limp raised pre flop, with ace ten"

"Called an utg raise I squeezed from BB and he shoved for 90xbb with AJ"

What u thinking on this river, is there a case to value bet

DOHHHHHHH

He cud have the 2 overs again, he cud have missed diamonds, maybe Ten and a picture.....

Is this where u add his range up and figure out if u beat more of the hands he cud have than not?

Or is it different OOP?

harvey23

^I would c-c here, FD missed, random 8x hand missed there draws, I think when you bet they will fold all there air obz, but if you check, you could get them to fire out with air.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

He cud have the 2 overs again, he cud have missed diamonds, maybe Ten and a picture..... Is this where u add his range up and figure out if u beat more of the hands he cud have than not? Or is it different OOP?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

bet more on the flop there are tons of worse hands that can call you and you're giving them a good price and you're oop.

turn is good, river is either one of three things a bet fold. a check call or a check fold. against this prescribed villain you could well just c/f to any decent sized bet basically.

Patching99

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky.. : bu-gger I just typed out a long post and then misclicked and went off to some silly blog so now have lost it. IN summary. yes br constraints can affect how you play but that's bad. c/shoving the turn isn't too  bad, it depends what reads you have as to whether you can make c/c re-evaluate more profitable than c/shoving the turn.  value bet when you can put your opponents on worse hands that CAN CALL A BET.
Posted by beaneh

I read a lot from you and LOL raise about making bets that weaker hands will call etc.  Are there also spots where its good to shut hands down and take the pot for what its worth?  Say for the example above but we put the player on J10s, flush draw, straight draw, do we shove turn then or what size bet for value here?  On the opposite side of things, if we don't think the player has a hand that can call a bet, what do we do, surely we still bet?

beaneh

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky.. : I read a lot from you and LOL raise about making bets that weaker hands will call etc.  Are there also spots where its good to shut hands down and take the pot for what its worth?  Say for the example above but we put the player on J10s, flush draw, straight draw, do we shove turn then or what size bet for value here?  On the opposite side of things, if we don't think the player has a hand that can call a bet, what do we do, surely we still bet?
Posted by Patching99

if they dont have a hand and we dont either we bet.

if they dont have a hand and we have one but it's vulnerable we bet

if they dont have a hand and we have one thats awesomo we check (unless you think they will specifically play back at your bet).

rather than do or dont have hands, think about it as what proportions of hands are worse better etc and how will they play.

if you're betting you need to have reasons, get value from worse, fold out better hands etc

Patching99

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky..:

In Response to Re: Did I play this bad or just unlucky.. : if they dont have a hand and we dont either we bet. if they dont have a hand and we have one but it's vulnerable we bet if they dont have a hand and we have one thats awesomo we check (unless you think they will specifically play back at your bet). rather than do or dont have hands, think about it as what proportions of hands are worse better etc and how will they play. if you're betting you need to have reasons, get value from worse, fold out better hands etc
Posted by beaneh

Cheers beneah, makes sense, not very good at putting people on range of hands or anything like that yet.