He can if he's now figured out that he's behind. There's no point being stubborn with the hand; everything is screaming to him that he's behind, the pot is offering bad odds and it's just horrible calling off 75BBs in this spot.
Raising the flop is a mistake. Why compound it with a second one though?
In Response to Re: CAN CANDIO CALL? (KEY WSOP HAND) : Web Editor, Poker Strategy Guru, Champion of the The Poker Clinic, Occasional TV Analyst, Ex-journo who still chokes on his cornflakes when he reads through hand histories... what don't I do, donkeyplop? To be honest, I actually wrote some thoughts on this hand this morning but then noticed Mr Hartigan had brought it up on the forums, so simply waited for the spoiler before venting my strategy spleen Posted by Sky_Dave
Actually, Dave, I can tell you that you're officially known as simply "Poker enthusiast" - I saw it on the tele yesterday! :-D
In Response to Re: CAN CANDIO CALL? (KEY WSOP HAND) : Actually, Dave, I can tell you that you're officially known as simply "Poker enthusiast" - I saw it on the tele yesterday! :-D Posted by NoseyBonk
He can if he's now figured out that he's behind. There's no point being stubborn with the hand; everything is screaming to him that he's behind, the pot is offering bad odds and it's just horrible calliing off 75BBs in this spot. Raising the flop is a mistake. Why compound it with a second one though? Posted by Sky_Dave
If opponent has AKcc and we get it in and he bricks, is it still a mistake to raise flop get it in.
He didn't raise flop 'for information so as to ask the question and get away from it'.
There are reasons for raising flop and none of those are valid, he doesn't 'find out hes behind' when the guy shoves he finds that out when he sees his hand. When 'everything is screaming your behind' and you're playing good players you realise you dont have to be behind.
What if he raised flop because he felt it widened the guys reshoving range.
Raising the flop is only a mistake if you aren't thinking in terms of a strategy and just in terms of he went out to aces.
Yes he can be up against better hands do we always folds kings pre for the same reason ? We should be playing a range of hands. considering its a 3 bet pot and a paired board the ranges for value are very polarised and hence his raise flop line is never to be taken to then fold.
In Response to Re: CAN CANDIO CALL? (KEY WSOP HAND) : If opponent has AKcc and we get it in and he bricks, is it still a mistake to raise flop get it in. He didn't raise flop 'for information so as to ask the question and get away from it'. There are reasons for raising flop and none of those are valid, he doesn't 'find out hes behind' when the guy shoves he finds that out when he sees his hand. When 'everything is screaming your behind' and you're playing good players you realise you dont have to be behind. What if he raised flop because he felt it widened the guys reshoving range. Raising the flop is only a mistake if you aren't thinking in terms of a strategy and just in terms of he went out to aces. Yes he can be up against better hands do we always folds kings pre for the same reason ? We should be playing a range of hands. considering its a 3 bet pot and a paired board the ranges for value are very polarised and hence his raise flop line is never to be taken to then fold. Posted by beaneh
OK, so if raising the flop is only done with a view to getting stacks in, tell us what you think about just flatting the reraise on the flop. I imagine you think that's bad too?
In Response to Re: CAN CANDIO CALL? (KEY WSOP HAND) : OK, so if raising the flop is only done with a view to getting stacks in, tell us what you think about just flatting the reraise on the flop. I imagine you think that's bad too? Posted by Sky_Dave
Paired board raises look like bluffs, hence the guy reshoving can be wider than just nutted value hands.
Do you mean Aces bet calling the flop? That would be my preferred play with Aces most of the time.
if aces jam it in and get snapped off by trips did he play it aswell as when he gets snapped off by a pair worse than him?
how many combinations of aces are there to draws that he can jam in. how does the guy feel being raised with 88 on 665 etc
Dave's epic (and excellent) post exemplifies the importance of The Poker Clinic.
There is no way we could ever look at a single hand in that much detail on the live TV shows.
But here's a thought - should we have access to software like PokerStove / ICM Poker in the studio, so we can assess important aspects of tournament play, such as a player's equity against an opponent's range or his shoving range based on stack size and payout structure? Do you think that would be too hardcore for the general audience?
Anyway, good stuff, elblandie - and thank you for putting the hand in context. The back story, combined with the fact that Candio's Italian, help to explain his horrible call
James i think would be good info for the average player knowing the equity and having a software like that, would be easier to pick up hearing you talk about it then just nose dive in on our own imo
Comments
Raising the flop is a mistake. Why compound it with a second one though?