good players?? or average players that just run good??

ROSEYELLOW

ive noticed recently ,that the so called good players on this site ,or players that are well known ,they just seem to run so good ,,,,i dont think theres much difference of talent ,between ur average joe, and the so called big name players ,they both call an allin with a flush draw or an open ended str8 draw ,the so called good players just run good ,,,,theres not that much  difference in play between the two,,,,,,,yes, they probably do have a better understanding of the game ,and have more expierience,but talent wise i think its very marginal ,,,,,,,i mean to win a tournement these days ,is a big ask ,most of the players have a much better understanding of the game ,and its become a lot harder to grind out results ..........i bet theres a lot of players on the site ,playing exactly the same way as the so called good players ,that just dont get the results .............does that make them a bad player ?   of course not ..running good ,and being catogarized as a good player ,,has a very thin line running through it .................i could even stick my neck out here ,and say lucky or unlucky ,is there that much of a difference ,between skill and luck ????????             have fun ROSIE

DOHHHHHHH

The better players don't expect to win tournaments.

The better players prove they are the better players by beating the cash games on a regular basis, where there is less luck involved.

You can't run good forever.

Ive been playing and winning for 5 years, yet still get accused of being a fish that's just running good.

The only thing that you should care about when analysing whether you are a good player or not, is your results. In poker, that will be how much money you win or lose over a period of time.

What do you value more, the respect and admiration of your opponents? or the money in your account at the end of the day? I know which one I'd rather have.

elsadog

Agreed it's all down to luck.

I've only managed to win 6 main events this year, and I normally average 10 a year, so it seems my luck is bad.

You're right that there isn't much difference in the ''talent levels'' ....... but there is a difference, and that small difference makes all the difference.




Disclaimer: At no point in the above statements was any account taken regarding the status of Phil(luckbox)12uk

IRISHROVER

 WELL I HAVE PROFITED  CONSECUTIVELY FOR THE LAST 36 MONTHS ON SKYPOKER ,

 THAT'S SOME IRISH LUCK FOR YEA LOL !

DAVEYZZ

i've won quite a bit on sky poker live and online, and i have never won a tourny without getting lucky at some point.
but i think if you make the right decisions a good percentage of the time you can have an edge on other players.
not all players call thier stack on flush draws (5/1 on the flop) or srt8 draws etc.......i agree with dohhhhhhh that cash players have the most skill,something i am trying to improve on....

Penny_Less

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

i've won quite a bit on sky poker live and online, and i have never won a tourny without getting lucky at some point. but i think if you make the right decisions a good percentage of the time you can have an edge on other players. not all players call thier stack on flush draws (5/1 on the flop) or srt8 draws etc.......i agree with dohhhhhhh that cash players have the most skill,something i am trying to improve on....
Posted by DAVEYZZ

2/1 on the flop

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good?? : 2/1 on the flop
Posted by Penny_Less

well its actually 4/1 19.15%   being a bit generous sorry

donkeyplop

well i would put myself in the category of average player that runs good so im not going to complain!!

dantb10

I try to run good in 400bb pots, and run bad in 10bb ones.

But then the short stacker tilts me hard and i always run bad then

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good?? : well its actually 4/1 19.15%   being a bit generous sorry
Posted by DAVEYZZ

a flush draw is nowhere near this mark, 9 outs twice, look it up

SHANXTA

In Response to good players?? or average players that just run good??:

ive noticed recently ,that the so called good players on this site ,or players that are well known ,they just seem to run so good ,,,,i dont think theres much difference of talent ,between ur average joe, and the so called big name players ,they both call an allin with a flush draw or an open ended str8 draw ,the so called good players just run good ,,,,theres not that much  difference in play between the two,,,,,,,yes, they probably do have a better understanding of the game ,and have more expierience,but talent wise i think its very marginal ,,,,,,,i mean to win a tournement these days ,is a big ask ,most of the players have a much better understanding of the game ,and its become a lot harder to grind out results ..........i bet theres a lot of players on the site ,playing exactly the same way as the so called good players ,that just dont get the results .............does that make them a bad player ?   of course not ..running good ,and being catogarized as a good player ,,has a very thin line running through it .................i could even stick my neck out here ,and say lucky or unlucky ,is there that much of a difference ,between skill and luck ????????             have fun ROSIE
Posted by ROSEYELLOW

there is a massive difference in ability from the players who play the biggies on a regular basis down to new people who are learning the game, check out some of the big mtt'ers sharkscope, its pretty impressive

ROSEYELLOW

my apologies ,i think some of you ,have missed the point i was trying to make ,with regaurds too a few sarcastic replys ............the standard of play early on in amtt is pretty poor ,but when the mtt is running deep ,normally most plays are same, with the cards that your dealt ,90%  of players will play the game accordingly ,with thier aa ,kk ,ak aq and so on.....you are going to get players like dohhhhhh,with a large chipstack raising the blinds with air ,thats part of the game ,i make these moves myself ................what im saying is ,its a very fine line between skill and luck at this stage of the tourny ,ive never won a tourny either without some luck along the way ............who ever is running good ,does not make them a good player ,   ,,,,,,,,,,,ok ,last night ,not on here ,i played a cash game ,but before i chose my table ,i done a player search ,,,,,,,,,the guy i was looking for is a atm machine ,he regulary deposits into my bankroll ,found him ,and he was sitting there with 8 buyins up????????? ,i played for 2 hours and lost 3 buy ins too him .............the guy could not miss hitting a monster flop all night ,i gave up in the end ,he was unbeatable ,,,,,,,he is a poor player ,running good ,skill ,or luck ???? certainly not skill ,luck yes running good yes .............good player ?no he certainly is not ,,,,there is a very fine line between skill ,luck ,running good ,,,,just cause your running good ,does not make you a good player ,or do you think otherwise??

Brrrrrrr

Roseyellow....sorry to'interrupt' your discussion but if you are on the site, i am going to play on free play cash table 'Dublin' for until 4pm if you want to fnd me - cheers!

yb

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

my apologies ,i think some of you ,have missed the point i was trying to make ,with regaurds too a few sarcastic replys ............the standard of play early on in amtt is pretty poor ,but when the mtt is running deep ,normally most plays are same, with the cards that your dealt ,90%  of players will play the game accordingly ,with thier aa ,kk ,ak aq and so on.....you are going to get players like dohhhhhh,with a large chipstack raising the blinds with air ,thats part of the game ,i make these moves myself ................what im saying is ,its a very fine line between skill and luck at this stage of the tourny ,ive never won a tourny either without some luck along the way ............who ever is running good ,does not make them a good player ,   ,,,,,,,,,,,ok ,last night ,not on here ,i played a cash game ,but before i chose my table ,i done a player search ,,,,,,,,,the guy i was looking for is a atm machine ,he regulary deposits into my bankroll ,found him ,and he was sitting there with 8 buyins up????????? ,i played for 2 hours and lost 3 buy ins too him .............the guy could not miss hitting a monster flop all night ,i gave up in the end ,he was unbeatable ,,,,,,,he is a poor player ,running good ,skill ,or luck ???? certainly not skill ,luck yes running good yes .............good player ?no he certainly is not ,,,,there is a very fine line between skill ,luck ,running good ,,,,just cause your running good ,does not make you a good player ,or do you think otherwise??
Posted by ROSEYELLOW

Cash games is real poker...you can't make money over a long period of time in cash without being good. And obviously over the short term bad players will make some monies, which is good because if they always lost then they'd never play again. Imo you really need to think about if you want to continue playing if you're going to get miffed when you lose a couple of buy-ins every so often.

Keep a track of your profits/losses over a lengthy period of time (and I mean several, several thousand hands) and from that you'll be able to get a good insight as to whether you're a winning player or not.

elsadog

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

my apologies ,i think some of you ,have missed the point i was trying to make ,with regaurds too a few sarcastic replys ............the standard of play early on in amtt is pretty poor ,but when the mtt is running deep ,normally most plays are same, with the cards that your dealt ,90%  of players will play the game accordingly ,with thier aa ,kk ,ak aq and so on.....you are going to get players like dohhhhhh,with a large chipstack raising the blinds with air ,thats part of the game ,i make these moves myself ................what im saying is ,its a very fine line between skill and luck at this stage of the tourny ,ive never won a tourny either without some luck along the way ............who ever is running good ,does not make them a good player ,   ,,,,,,,,,,,ok ,last night ,not on here ,i played a cash game ,but before i chose my table ,i done a player search ,,,,,,,,,the guy i was looking for is a atm machine ,he regulary deposits into my bankroll ,found him ,and he was sitting there with 8 buyins up????????? ,i played for 2 hours and lost 3 buy ins too him .............the guy could not miss hitting a monster flop all night ,i gave up in the end ,he was unbeatable ,,,,,,,he is a poor player ,running good ,skill ,or luck ???? certainly not skill ,luck yes running good yes .............good player ?no he certainly is not ,,,,there is a very fine line between skill ,luck ,running good ,,,,just cause your running good ,does not make you a good player ,or do you think otherwise??
Posted by ROSEYELLOW

Good players can run bad and bad players can run good. You're right that running good isn't the same as being good but that doesn't mean that all players who make a profit over a long period do so simply because they have run good. We all run good and bad at times but it's the overall picture that determines your ability at the level you are playing. Skill levels have definitely improved over the past 5 years or so and winning any tournament is certainly more difficult now than it was then. The guy you take as an example is having positive variance at the moment and in time this should equalize. You need to allow guys like this to do well from time to time - it's what keeps them coming back and keeps you in profit over the long term.

Cash and tournament players who make a profit over a long period are obviously more skilled than at least some of the people they are playing against. Everyone has a golden patch from time to time but constancy is the true test of ability.

shaun09

What if you have were in minur profit, then won a big tourny and in + profit, But seem to loose every thing else. Does that mean im not good at poker? and that i just ran good in that tourny?

spornybol

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

  WELL I HAVE PROFITED  CONSECUTIVELY FOR THE LAST 36 MONTHS ON SKYPOKER ,  THAT'S SOME IRISH LUCK FOR YEA LOL !
Posted by IRISHROVER

only because you get your mother inlaw to play for you, hehe

DOHHHHHHH

In tournys all u can do is put yourself in a good position as often as possible, and eventually u will win the important race, hit the jackpot cooler hand against the big stack, suck out when ur QQ is in pre v KK etc etc then go on to make the final table.

Think u need a bigger sample size to judge someone MTT ability than u do cash....

At the start of any mtt, every player has a chance, just run super gudddddddddddd

ALIVEHAT60

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

Quite interesting posts,imo,I think to a certain extent you do state the obvious, (no disrespect intended ). I am exactly what you are suggesting, a poor player, ie unskilled and for the most part unlucky I accept that, I play just for fun not gain. I have won 3 out of the last 4 deepstacks does that make me a better player,not at all,I have no illusions whatsoever about that.What it actually proves is that the game can be full of anomalies                                   Kind regards 

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good?? : a flush draw is nowhere near this mark, 9 outs twice, look it up
Posted by SHANXTA

9 outs = 20% of the deck = 4/1??

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good??:

In Response to Re: good players?? or average players that just run good?? : 9 outs = 20% of the deck = 4/1??
Posted by DAVEYZZ

if u get it in on a bare flush draw expect to be about ~37%

if u have an over card to go with it, or even better a gutshot expect to go up to ~47%