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3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
edited December 2010 in The Poker Clinic

(deep in only a 60 runner tourny, but deep)

£5.50 buy in.

Top 8 paid.

8th - £15.    1st = £100.

Position - 7th/14 remaining.


History on this guy -
 
Had opened alot of pots. Was mixing up his raise sizes, between min raises, and 3xbb. Had no real read on what this meant yet - I had seen him show down Ace 5 against a short who called from the big blind, this was just a min raise on the button.

His play down the streets was also loose/aggressive, calling station-ish, but not afraid to bet his draws/marginal hands. In one pot, very first level, he raised the button with ace 5, the flop went check check, and he overbet jammed the turn with the bare ace of hearts.

My image -

Very tight. I had passed up on alot of stealing/3 betting opportunities, and built my stack by showing, aces, AK, and a set of 9's all of which he had seen.

He'd stolen my BB a few times, I wanted to be as patient as possible, and find a spot.

Is this it?

(HH messed up, he has me covered by maybe 2kish)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
DangerMog Small blind  300.00 300.00 9615.00
DOHHHHHHH Big blind  600.00 900.00 7990.00
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • K
     
pomfrittes Fold     
brisbo9 Fold     
Moon_River Fold     
HAZZA1 Raise  1200.00 2100.00 13740.00
DangerMog Fold     
DOHHHHHHH All-in  7990.00 10090.00 0.00
HAZZA1
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Comments

  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited December 2010
    can't see a lot wrong here tbf.  good size shoving stack over a min raise and given your read + image I wouldn't expect to be called here that often
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited December 2010
    I like the shove too, lets hope villain has been paying attention!
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2010
    pretty standard mtt play JJ. I understand your shove but i probably wait for a better spot.
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  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    pretty standard mtt play JJ. I understand your shove but i probably wait for a better spot.
    Posted by The_Don90
    this is a perfect spot....
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited December 2010
    lol so he calls with KJ? Pretty sick for you
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2010
    Ace 9........

    I probably would have posted it if I'd binked, or he'd folded it though.

    Only on my first can at the time, so was actually thinking about my image and stuff - drunk, it wud be an auto shove. 

    I keep messing mtt's up, I suck at them, so it aint really a "feel sorry for myself" post, although I do right now.......


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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep. : this is a perfect spot....
    Posted by scotty77
    Against a player known for calling with A5 which is ahead of our K high ? ? ? ?

    Scotty i think better spots will come. Or when we can become the opening raiser.
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    Ace 9........ I probably would have posted it if I'd binked, or he'd folded it though. Only on my first can at the time, so was actually thinking about my image and stuff - drunk, it wud be an auto shove.  I keep messing mtt's up, I suck at them, so it aint really a "feel sorry for myself" post, although I do right now.......
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    This isn't all that bad I wouldn't worry about it.

    With plays like this on Sky you are going to get called by marginal hands. Some guy called me in a similar spot (in fact i had more bbs) with A9 against my 8s. 

    Basically when we are aggro like this the fish will call, the good players will most likely fold. It depends on whether you want to nit up and secure like 25 quid, or go for the win. I've been going for the win lately and basically busting every main tourney like this - but made 4 ft's last two days. So it's win some lose some...then big cash.
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  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited December 2010
    I had seen him show down Ace 5 against a short who called from the big blind, this was just a min raise on the button.

    this indicates that the bb short stack called pre and it was checked to showdown tbf.

    don't forget that KT isn't that far behind AX.

    with our fold equity and 2.1k dead money in the pot, thus increasing our stack by over 25pc, i think that this is a good play.

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2010

    The hand with the ace 5, he min raised the button, I folded junk, knowing the BB had only 3xbb behind, which went in. Nowhere near the bubble, no reason for me to play.

    Not very significant really, thats why I still wasn't sure what his open sizes meant - coz his raise size was probably influenced by the bb's stack

    Sorry for the confusion.


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  • Eagle26Eagle26 Member Posts: 431
    edited December 2010
    played fine imo tbh i make this move with pretty much any 2, i aint giving up my bb to a min-raise.

    also villians call aint the worst call in the world. if im sittin on button with a9 with u in the bb i make it 1500, u shove, i call. i think at this stage of a tourney ppls shovin & callin ranges should open up dramatically (ppl play far to tight at this stage of a tourney imo) obv player reads is important, but i think this hand is pretty standard.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited December 2010
    he should be shoving his rag ace here to stop you shoving him, A9 Is good enough to trap you with so you was pwnd imo
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    he should be shoving his rag ace here to stop you shoving him, A9 Is good enough to trap you with so you was pwnd imo
    Posted by N1CK
    If he snapped me off I would agree with ya.

    More luck than judgement imo.

    My play? - What u think?
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep. : If he snapped me off I would agree with ya. More luck than judgement imo. My play? - What u think?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    yeah its pretty standard, im shoving in your position neary 100%
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited December 2010
    A good move IMO. You should be ahead of his button opening raise and he should only be calling with something very strong if he's noticed you're playing a nitty game. Most times you'll take the pot down, the trouble is that sometimes the LAG really will have it, so with K high you are praying for the fold rather than the call.
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited December 2010
    I don't think villains call with A9 is good. 
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  • Eagle26Eagle26 Member Posts: 431
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    I don't think villains call with A9 is good. 
    Posted by pryce6
    whats the worst u call with?
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  • sikassikas Member Posts: 857
    edited December 2010
    ur move was fine, altho i like to make these moves with either premium or suited connectors, if he does call his range is either ahead or dominating you, at least with SC's ur gonna have live cards,  his call was bad tho.

    if he's a loose-aggro-spewtard u have to expect calls cos he's gonna be a gambling maniac, (these 2 facets go hand in hand imo) ur best of re-shoving on tighter players
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep. : whats the worst u call with?
    Posted by Eagle26
    AT :D

    suited...
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  • Eagle26Eagle26 Member Posts: 431
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep.:
    In Response to Re: 3 bet shoving v v aggro button, mtt. deep. : AT :D suited...
    Posted by pryce6
    i would like some feedback on this actually

    if 3bet shovin with k-10 is 'cool' then surely callin with a9 is acceptable?

    doh knows the villians button range is huge (especially as he stated the villian had already stole his blinds on several occasions) so surely heros 3bet shovin range now becomes huge too? we cant allow aggro players to keep stealing our blinds. so if the villian is aware of this then a9 is quite easily ahead of heros range? we dont fold a9 blind on blind here do we?

    u say worst u call with is A-10 so obv u are prepared to accept a possible race here as we are playin ftw so if Ak-a10 is a snap call then A9 should be a call to imo.

    alot comes down to who the players are, if im the villian in this hand against doh its quite an easy call 4 me because i know doh is capable of 3bet shovin light. if i know the villian is an absolute nit who aint got any type of move in him then obv its fold.


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