the player started abuseing the whole table for this to be fair i myself think it was ok to call here Posted by ckd
as its a dym i think you both played it wrong,in that i would not want to race for all my chips so early on in a dym(thats just my strategy though) there is an argument for racing then after doubling up folding your way to the money. either way there is no need for abuse,we all know it was only because he lost a race(that he was willing to go into)...gl,dave
In Response to Re: abuse for calling this : as its a dym i think you both played it wrong,in that i would not want to race for all my chips so early on in a dym(thats just my strategy though) there is an argument for racing then after doubling up folding your way to the money. either way there is no need for abuse,we all know it was only because he lost a race(that he was willing to go into)...gl,dave Posted by DAVEYZZ
i know it was not good to call there for my stack but at the time i was multi tableing i thought i was good and at worst he had small pp but i was happy to race there if i lost then ow well
theres been to many times i fold early on and get nothing at all for the rest of the game so i thought i might as well try
It seems I am the only one that agrees with your call but then again I did see the villians name and also seen his moan threads, so was well aware of what range of hands he goes all-in with! The fact that he moaned about it is great because that is what he does best!
Shoving with any two is not as bad as some might think - it takes a very big hand to call. It's not a quality shove, but shoving beats calling all day.
The Call? Don't quite know what to say! It's a bad a call as you will ever see, anywhere, it's woefully bad I'm afraid. Just my opinion, & you did ask. I'd rather shove with 2-3 than make that call with A-Q. It offends every DYM "rule".
Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the abuse. There is never any reason to abuse anyone at a poker Table. Anyone who does needs to get back to School. Junior School.
Shoving with any two is not as bad as some might think - it takes a very big hand to call. It's not a quality shove, but shoving beats calling all day. The Call? Don't quite know what to say! It's a bad a call as you will ever see, anywhere, it's woefully bad I'm afraid.Just my opinion, & you did ask. I'd rather shove with 2-3 than make that call with A-Q. It offends every DYM "rule". Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the abuse. There is never any reason to abuse anyone at a poker Table. Anyone who does needs to get back to School. Junior School. Posted by Tikay10
later it's fine, at this stage it's terrible when people call you with AQ.
I think that's the strongest opinion i've ever heard from you TK on strategy... it just made me lol but is obvs very true.
Shoving with any two is not as bad as some might think - it takes a very big hand to call. It's not a quality shove, but shoving beats calling all day. The Call? Don't quite know what to say! It's a bad a call as you will ever see, anywhere, it's woefully bad I'm afraid. Just my opinion, & you did ask. I'd rather shove with 2-3 than make that call with A-Q. It offends every DYM "rule". Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the abuse. There is never any reason to abuse anyone at a poker Table. Anyone who does needs to get back to School. Junior School. Posted by Tikay10
ty for your opinion
you say its a bad call but does it not matter what you put the other player on/ the table image
i myself cant see a prob with it...... i see people pushing with aj kq kj k10 a10 all the time in these...this is why i cant see the prob with it..... i know the point in dym is to get top 3 so not to go crazy but also to me you cant sit there waiting for aa kk all the time......surly it does count on the table your on and the players you have or am i wrong again....... thanks for any help
In Response to Re: abuse for calling this : ty for your opinion you say its a bad call but does it not matter what you put the other player on/ the table image i myself cant see a prob with it...... i see people pushing with aj kq kj k10 a10 all the time in these...this is why i cant see the prob with it..... i know the point in dym is to get top 3 so not to go crazy but also to me you cant sit there waiting for aa kk all the time......surly it does count on the table your on and the players you have or am i wrong again....... thanks for any help Posted by ckd
In Response to Re: abuse for calling this : ty for your opinion you say its a bad call but does it not matter what you put the other player on/ the table image i myself cant see a prob with it...... i see people pushing with aj kq kj k10 a10 all the time in these...this is why i cant see the prob with it..... i know the point in dym is to get top 3 so not to go crazy but also to me you cant sit there waiting for aa kk all the time......surly it does count on the table your on and the players you have or am i wrong again....... thanks for any help Posted by ckd
Assign your opponent a range of possible holdings, calculate your equity against them. Considering you need to win 55% of most dyms to break even then you are looking to get your money in as at least a 55% favourite. However, if you factor in that you are not guaranteed to cash even if you double up then getting your money in less than a 70% favourite in the early stages is really not good.
Shoving with any two is not as bad as some might think- it takes a very big hand to call. It's not a quality shove, but shoving beats calling all day. The Call? Don't quite know what to say! It's a bad a call as you will ever see, anywhere, it's woefully bad I'm afraid. Just my opinion, & you did ask. I'd rather shove with 2-3 than make that call with A-Q. It offends every DYM "rule". Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the abuse. There is never any reason to abuse anyone at a poker Table. Anyone who does needs to get back to School. Junior School. Posted by Tikay10
I dissagree with you here tikay. Yes your right that shoving is better than calling, but its only good to shove with small pairs when there are no large raises in play. To shove with a small pair when a player before you has raised 6 times the big blind is silly.
I just put this hand into an ICM calculator for you and it suggests that you can call if you believe your opponent is shoving 42% or more of all hands (note that this includes hands such as J-10, Q8 and K2 etc).
HOWEVER, I do not believe this to be appropriate strategy in a DYM. ICM has numerous limitations, the most notable being that it cannot account for skill edges. I agree 100% with what has been said above and I would snap fold this if I believed my opponent to be shoving 100% of hands/ATC.
As you say you still cannot see the problem maybe it will help to think about it in terms of equity. When the first hand is dealt in a £5 (ignore rake) DYM everyone'e equity (how much of the prizepool is 'there's' or, they can 'expect' to win) is £5 (hopefully this is clear as you all have exactly the same amount of chips.) However, if you double up the first hand and increase your chip count to 4000, your equity DOES NOT double to £10 as there is 'equity leakage'. In this example your equity only increases to £8 and everyone elses at the table increases to £5.50 (roughly).
So, if you take a flip at the beginning of a DYM and lose you lose your whole £5 equity whereas if you win and double your chip count you do not get a full double up in equity. In other words, when you flip (or otherwise 'gamble') at the beginning of a DYM (or other sit and go) the only winners in the long term are the 4 people at the table not involved in the hand.
The reason I suggested reporting this incident is that, this player may keep getting away with this kind of behaviour if no action is taken against her/him they will continue, I am aware there are players on the site who dont like being abused/swearing.
Hey ckd The reason I suggested reporting this incident is that, this player may keep getting away with this kind of behaviour if no action is taken against her/him they will continue, I am aware there are players on the site who dont like being abused/swearing. Many thanks Sky Mod Posted by Sky_Mod4
Hi Mod...I have however reported a certain person a min of 4 times now and they still carry on the same and have their chat so what's the point?
Hey ckd The reason I suggested reporting this incident is that, this player may keep getting away with this kind of behaviour if no action is taken against her/him they will continue, I am aware there are players on the site who dont like being abused/swearing. Many thanks Sky Mod Posted by Sky_Mod4
hey mate
no prob i just dont like reporting people.....just them letting of steam like but know what your saying
Comments
there is an argument for racing then after doubling up folding your way to the money.
either way there is no need for abuse,we all know it was only because he lost a race(that he was willing to go into)...gl,dave
theres been to many times i fold early on and get nothing at all for the rest of the game so i thought i might as well try
Terrible call.
Although there is no need for any abuse.
as for the abuse..........fXXk him!
Shoving with any two is not as bad as some might think - it takes a very big hand to call. It's not a quality shove, but shoving beats calling all day.
The Call? Don't quite know what to say! It's a bad a call as you will ever see, anywhere, it's woefully bad I'm afraid. Just my opinion, & you did ask. I'd rather shove with 2-3 than make that call with A-Q. It offends every DYM "rule".
Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the abuse. There is never any reason to abuse anyone at a poker Table. Anyone who does needs to get back to School. Junior School.
I think that's the strongest opinion i've ever heard from you TK on strategy... it just made me lol but is obvs very true.
you say its a bad call but does it not matter what you put the other player on/ the table image
i myself cant see a prob with it...... i see people pushing with aj kq kj k10 a10 all the time in these...this is why i cant see the prob with it..... i know the point in dym is to get top 3 so not to go crazy but also to me you cant sit there waiting for aa kk all the time......surly it does count on the table your on and the players you have or am i wrong again....... thanks for any help
HOWEVER, I do not believe this to be appropriate strategy in a DYM. ICM has numerous limitations, the most notable being that it cannot account for skill edges. I agree 100% with what has been said above and I would snap fold this if I believed my opponent to be shoving 100% of hands/ATC.
As you say you still cannot see the problem maybe it will help to think about it in terms of equity. When the first hand is dealt in a £5 (ignore rake) DYM everyone'e equity (how much of the prizepool is 'there's' or, they can 'expect' to win) is £5 (hopefully this is clear as you all have exactly the same amount of chips.) However, if you double up the first hand and increase your chip count to 4000, your equity DOES NOT double to £10 as there is 'equity leakage'. In this example your equity only increases to £8 and everyone elses at the table increases to £5.50 (roughly).
So, if you take a flip at the beginning of a DYM and lose you lose your whole £5 equity whereas if you win and double your chip count you do not get a full double up in equity. In other words, when you flip (or otherwise 'gamble') at the beginning of a DYM (or other sit and go) the only winners in the long term are the 4 people at the table not involved in the hand.
JC
ty all for your insight on this
take it into account next time
ty all
The reason I suggested reporting this incident is that, this player may keep getting away with this kind of behaviour if no action is taken against her/him they will continue, I am aware there are players on the site who dont like being abused/swearing.
Many thanks
Sky Mod
no prob i just dont like reporting people.....just them letting of steam like but know what your saying