I don't get how you can say to yourself: 'I think he has AK'?? Posted by BlackFish3
Glad you asked that BF. That's really the crux of me posting this. As a hand it's unremarkable. You ask who I can say to myself 'he has AK.' I hate the term but for want of a better one it's about 'feel.' Brain and 'feel' were in direct conflict. Brain was saying 'AK doesn't turn up here too often on a cold 4bet. I don't know this guy so I can't say he's silly enough or smart enough to overbet shove with AA, I have to assume he's somewhere in between great and awful. He might shove KK, more likely QQ or JJ and trying to shutdown the hand. Sometimes AK but not enough to make this +ev. Let's fold.' However feel was saying 'It's AK. He doesn't know how to play it if he misses and he doesn't know how to fold it. He's gone all MTT. He's panicked, it's AK, call him.'
These situations occur for me on the odd occasion, fairly rarely though. Feel has always won before. Sometimes it's made me money, sometimes it's made me look like a donk. It's completely illogical but you just sometimes think you know, even if you don't know why. A lot of people call it guessing and that's a fair enough, might be a quite accurate description, but my guesses have a good strike rate.
Like I say, before this, 'feel' has won. Suddenly I'm letting brain win and making that decision. This might be great, perhaps 'feel' is just another word for gamble and ego, 'I'm a genius, I must be ahead, you don't win monezz by folding!' Then again I might be ripping the heart out of the game. We'll see how it goes
In Response to Re: I blame Beaneh for this fold : Glad you asked that BF. That's really the crux of me posting this. As a hand it's unremarkable. You ask who I can say to myself 'he has AK.' I hate the term but for want of a better one it's about 'feel.' Brain and 'feel' were in direct conflict. Brain was saying 'AK doesn't turn up here too often on a cold 4bet. I don't know this guy so I can't say he's silly enough or smart enough to overbet shove with AA, I have to assume he's somewhere in between great and awful. He might shove KK, more likely QQ or JJ and trying to shutdown the hand. Sometimes AK but not enough to make this +ev. Let's fold.' However feel was saying 'It's AK. He doesn't know how to play it if he misses and he doesn't know how to fold it. He's gone all MTT. He's panicked, it's AK, call him.' These situations occur for me on the odd occasion, fairly rarely though. Feel has always won before. Sometimes it's made me money, sometimes it's made me look like a donk. It's completely illogical but you just sometimes think you know, even if you don't know why. A lot of people call it guessing and that's a fair enough, might be a quite accurate description, but my guesses have a good strike rate. Like I say, before this, 'feel' has won. Suddenly I'm letting brain win and making that decision. This might be great, perhaps 'feel' is just another word for gamble and ego, 'I'm a genius, I must be ahead, you don't win monezz by folding!' Then again I might be ripping the heart out of the game. We'll see how it goes Posted by TommyD
I realised after I commented that his shove rather than raise may have given you some better idea of his range than a normal cold 4 betting range. I think AK will turn up lots here though. My problem with feelings is they can come from experience or just a random guess. BUT... they can easily be influenced, for example tell yourself he has AK so that you can call with your 99 because you have already invested money and folding isn't fun. Appreciate the long reply dude.
In Response to Re: I blame Beaneh for this fold : Glad you asked that BF. That's really the crux of me posting this. As a hand it's unremarkable. You ask who I can say to myself 'he has AK.' I hate the term but for want of a better one it's about 'feel.' Brain and 'feel' were in direct conflict. Brain was saying 'AK doesn't turn up here too often on a cold 4bet. I don't know this guy so I can't say he's silly enough or smart enough to overbet shove with AA, I have to assume he's somewhere in between great and awful. He might shove KK, more likely QQ or JJ and trying to shutdown the hand. Sometimes AK but not enough to make this +ev. Let's fold.' However feel was saying 'It's AK. He doesn't know how to play it if he misses and he doesn't know how to fold it. He's gone all MTT. He's panicked, it's AK, call him.' These situations occur for me on the odd occasion, fairly rarely though. Feel has always won before. Sometimes it's made me money, sometimes it's made me look like a donk. It's completely illogical but you just sometimes think you know, even if you don't know why. A lot of people call it guessing and that's a fair enough, might be a quite accurate description, but my guesses have a good strike rate. Like I say, before this, 'feel' has won. Suddenly I'm letting brain win and making that decision. This might be great, perhaps 'feel' is just another word for gamble and ego, 'I'm a genius, I must be ahead, you don't win monezz by folding!' Then again I might be ripping the heart out of the game. We'll see how it goes Posted by TommyD
I disagree with a lot of this. You 3bet to 15bbs and he has just over 100bbs behind, he can't really 4bet to a reasonable amount (i.e. where he could feasibly be 4bet/folding) without giving you ridiculously good odds to call, so if he is shoving with 100% of his 4betting range he played it fine imo. Especially as when you shove pre rather than 4betting to some ridic amount like 37bbs people love to put you on AK, so you can get max value when you have AA/KK.
In Response to Re: I blame Beaneh for this fold : I disagree with a lot of this. You 3bet to 15bbs and he has just over 100bbs behind, he can't really 4bet to a reasonable amount (i.e. where he could feasibly be 4bet/folding) without giving you ridiculously good odds to call, so if he is shoving with 100% of his 4betting range he played it fine imo. Especially as when you shove pre rather than 4betting to some ridic amount like 37bbs people love to put you on AK, so you can get max value when you have AA/KK. Posted by yb
4-bet shoving with AA/KK is a great way to get stacks in against QQ/JJ. Always looks like AK but rarely is.
Comments
My problem with feelings is they can come from experience or just a random guess. BUT... they can easily be influenced, for example tell yourself he has AK so that you can call with your 99 because you have already invested money and folding isn't fun.
Appreciate the long reply dude.