Playing bad or Running bad?

AMYBR

Playing NLHE100 at alternate site.  Tables pretty tight, I'm opening and  c betting alot  KJo on the button 4x BB

Flop A10Qr.  I open big to look bluffy, guy min raises, I raise big he flats.

Turn A10Q2.  I open two thirds, he min raises I jam, he calls.

Hel holds 10 Q, Q binks the river.  Flopped BW to house.

Few hands later pocket 8's.   Flop comes 8s3c2s.  I open, he raises, I Jam he calls. he holds pocket 4's, hits runner runner flush.  Top set, beatan by runner runner flush.

My AA 4 bet (big) pre flop comes 6s7sQh.  He opens, I raise, he jams, I'm slightly snakebit so call off alot more than i should.  He shows pocket 5's, 5 binks the river.  Over pair beat by river 4.4% lightning bolt.

I'm not complaining or moaning, I see this live more often than I'd like also.

I'm just trying to take a new look at my online game to see if there's a flaw I'm missing.  All these hands were heads up to the flop.  This is my average day online.  So running bad or playing bad?

beaneh

IF YOU PLAY A HAND OF POKER YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO RUN BAD.

When you run bad you rememeber it 1000x more than you remember a win.

Stop being biased, it happens to everyone. 

Getting your money in ahead and losing there is nothing wrong with just keep doing it and trust in the Maths.

Good ruck.

AMYBR

Er.. where was the bias?  I was asking a question?  If I was being biased i'd of put these hands in area 51

I CANNOT  win online lol, I'm just asking you guys that can, if you can see what I'm doing wrong here.  I've pretty much given up online play, I've put 2k on a new site, but have had no success there either. 

I'm sincerely asking if this is running bad or playing bad.  I cant decide if I should be letting a card come off or stab at poy control.  Both of which I find very hard to do here as am 90% and upwards.

Again what bias?  Also I dont agree that you should EXPECT TO RUN BAD, merely BE PREPARED TO RUN BAD.

beaneh

you're biased 

you got it in with the nuts vs two pair yet because you lost you are questioning something

that's being biased.

You may well not be playing as perfectly as you could BUT you are still being biased.

CLIOKID

I find it incredible that a player who apparently plays £5/10 live cash can really question whether or not he is running bad or playing bad on the back of the hands posted.

It would be worrying if you couldn't tell.

But you know you are running bad and this is a bad beat thread.

Which is fine, just don't dress it up as something else.

Good luck!

AMYBR

Yes youre right, I'm questioning if i'm playing bad or running bad?  Seems pretty simple?

Where is the bias???  I'm asking a question!!  I'm making no judgement on the outcome, nor my opponents actions.  I'm asking If there is a flaw to my approach - as in did I play the hand correctly/wrongly - or am i just currently running bad???  Where is the bias???

AMYBR

Look final time, I swear I'm not dressing it up as anything.  Normally I play 3/6 or 2/4 by the way.  I have been a losing online player for around 2 and a half years now, after crash and burning a pretty big BR.

I am sincerely asking if there is a critical flaw to my game that I'm not aware of.  This is TRULY  how I have been running for a very long time now, which may be responsible for my (perhaps) twisted point of view.  Honestly pretty much every critical hand goes this way online for me.  Maybe I am just on the very far end of the negative variance spectrum.  I'm not sending you up, nor looking to do anything than ask your opinions.  But I guess I can understand why you feel that may be the case.

This is how bad online poker has got my head turned round.

CLIOKID

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

Look final time, I swear I'm not dressing it up as anything.  Normally I play 3/6 or 2/4 by the way.  I have been a losing online player for around 2 and a half years now, after crash and burning a pretty big BR. I am sincerely asking if there is a critical flaw to my game that I'm not aware of.  This is TRULY  how I have been running for a very long time now, which may be responsible for my (perhaps) twisted point of view.  Honestly pretty much every critical hand goes this way online for me.  I'm not sending you up, nor looking to do anything than ask your opinions.  But I guess I can understand why you feel that may be the case. This is how bad online poker has got my head turned round.
Posted by AMYBR

If you are getting your money in when massive favourite regularly like this then you cannot think you are playing badly. Questioning whether you have played hands correctly when you get it in massively ahead just seems foolish as it's fairly obvious that you are playing them well/correctly.

I suppose that's what a bad run can do to your mentality so maybe you need a break. 

Keep doing this and I hope your luck turns for you.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

Yes youre right, I'm questioning if i'm playing bad or running bad?  Seems pretty simple? Where is the bias???  I'm asking a question!!  I'm making no judgement on the outcome, nor my opponents actions.  I'm asking If there is a flaw to my approach - as in did I play the hand correctly/wrongly - or am i just currently running bad???  Where is the bias???
Posted by AMYBR

if you have x thousand pounds to your name you should hopefully understand that betting on a 90% shot is going to show a profit in the long run regardless of the first outcome.

Most peoples biggest problem is not being honest with themselves and acknowledging losses so you should be able to work through it but you have to try and improve not question basic maths. running bad is something that happens to everyone but you cant let it affect your mentality or you'll start playing sucky.

move down, make notes, post hand histories in the clinic, look for help, read up. What else do you want us to say to improve you?!

AMYBR

Its been two and half years like this bud.  Just feels like a needless waste of time and expense now though.  I make good money live, but constantly go to bed wondering if i'm an online flamer!!!!

I have no problem loosing, I applaud a guy who traps and felts me.  But on everything I hold sacred if I'm not in the 75% range at the turn I prefer to use pot control, having suffered negative variance for so long.  It just seems I cant dodge the 4 or less outs when the moneys in.  Again not blaming anything, trying to to take something away from NODEAL's critisism - questioning, rather than accusing.  Maybe there's an answer out there that I've blinded myself too.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

Its been two and half years like this bud.  Just feels like a needless waste of time and expense now though.  I make good money live, but constantly go to bed wondering if i'm an online flamer!!!! I have no problem loosing, I applaud a guy who traps and felts me.  But on everything I hold sacred if I'm not in the 75% range at the turn I prefer to use pot control, having suffered negative variance for so long.  It just seems I cant dodge the 4 or less outs when the moneys in.  Again not blaming anything, trying to to take something away from NODEAL's critisism - questioning, rather than accusing.  Maybe there's an answer out there that I've blinded myself too.
Posted by AMYBR

You can pay me to coach you if you want. Otherwise I have no idea what to say other than try working on your game and improving.

if you dont know WHY you are pressing a button you are not playing your best.

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

Its been two and half years like this bud.  Just feels like a needless waste of time and expense now though.  I make good money live, but constantly go to bed wondering if i'm an online flamer!!!! I have no problem loosing, I applaud a guy who traps and felts me.  But on everything I hold sacred if I'm not in the 75% range at the turn I prefer to use pot control, having suffered negative variance for so long.  It just seems I cant dodge the 4 or less outs when the moneys in.  Again not blaming anything, trying to to take something away from NODEAL's critisism - questioning, rather than accusing.  Maybe there's an answer out there that I've blinded myself too.
Posted by AMYBR

If there is a problem its not with the hands you posted. Maybe you're not getting enough value with your winning hands? Why not post some hands where you feel you could've got more value and see what the experts say.?

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad? : if you have x thousand pounds to your name you should hopefully understand that betting on a 90% shot is going to show a profit in the long run regardless of the first outcome. Most peoples biggest problem is not being honest with themselves and acknowledging losses so you should be able to work through it but you have to try and improve not question basic maths. running bad is something that happens to everyone but you cant let it affect your mentality or you'll start playing sucky. move down, make notes, post hand histories in the clinic, look for help, read up. What else do you want us to say to improve you?!
Posted by beaneh

You have no idea how much I've read or played bud.  I dont agree in moving down, as lower the money is utterly meaningless and the play 10x worse  I am a very successful live player.  I'm not looking to be improved either really.  I was maybe just looking for some validation at running so bad so long.   Believe it or not bud there are alot of people out there where the math simply just does not hold up, I am sincerely one of them. I was never talking about the first outome, I dont whine or get annoyed at one bad beat. 

Maybe I have just run so bad for so long online my persective is utterly distorted. 

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad? : If there is a problem its not with the hands you posted. Maybe you're not getting enough value with your winning hands? Why not post some hands where you feel you could've got more value and see what the experts say.?
Posted by Seagull158

Thats actually a really good point, I'll put some up.  But it doesnt help when you lose the vast majority of all in critical pots at 90% and upwards.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad? : You have no idea how much I've read or played bud.  I dont agree in moving down, as lower the money is utterly meaningless and the play 10x worse  I am a very successful live player.  I'm not looking to be improved either really.  I was maybe just looking for some validation at running so bad so long.   Believe it or not bud there are alot of people out there where the math simply just does not hold up, I am sincerely one of them. I was never talking about the first outome, I dont whine or get annoyed at one bad beat.  Maybe I have just run so bad for so long online my persective is utterly distorted. 
Posted by AMYBR

meh

how many hands have you played online?

PM me if you want to try some coaching.

AMYBR

Look with all due respect I dont want coaching, nor to be told read more.  Without attempting to sound rude or condescending you truly have no idea the levels I've played at, nor the events I've been in.  I'm not trying to go for the holier than though thing, but I am a very accomplished live player, having been in 2 EPT events and on TV twice.  I'm not new to the game, nor do I have a novices understanding.  I have likely played 35hrs a week live for the last 5 and a half years, and maybe 20 hours a week online 5 tabling. 

My losses arent connected to a lack of understanding or flamey style.  It is directly connected to loosing all but a minority of critical all in pots, where I'm normally 90% upwards favourite.  I respect that that sounds incredible but its the truth.  I rarely tilt, nor get my money in bad, maybe I'm an utter abberation, who knows.  What I was really looking to find was if there was something in my STYLE that was harmful or incompatible. 

But I guess I am being ungracious as I was looking for advice, but theres a way and a means you know?  I'm going to work with whats left of my 2K at PS then call online a day I think.

If I do have a very very serious flaw though its this.  I am a pretty successful at online tournaments.  It is my strongest game, thats how my BR got so big so fast (coming second in the sunday brawl).  The majority of my online losses are cash.  So I really should stop playing online cash right?  But either way when your 90% going to the turn when two to a flop, whether its cash or S+G shouldnt change anything.  I guess working against a known flaw is pretty stubborn though.

BigBluster

The most successful long-term online cash players are those who never seem to put their stack at risk. They just grind it out, taking what the cards give them, nicking blinds, making a few big blinds an hour.

Every hand you post involves getting it all in. Now I understand the mathematics of a 90% shot paying even money (I've got a rusty degree in mathematics!), but this question was not about whether all of your bets were good ones as clearly they were, you asked about your style of play.
Something to ponder?

AMYBR

Thankyou.  I think thats what I'm maybe trying to feel out.  I'm kind of so snakebit that I wont slow play anything online.  So I'm not comfortable letting a card come off.  So in a post flop 3 bet situation (where stack applicable) I'm happy to jam and take the pot as is.  But surely getting it all in as a 85% and above shot at the turn can only be a good thing, its never going all in otherwise.  As I've said, I'm not a big fan of big pot poker, preferring pot control in a precarious spot.

I've kind of just decided that I run bad and accepted it.  I think I may just deposit 5% of my live winnings a month for a bit and see if this pattern can change.

But thanks, this was the question of "style" i was meaning.

N1CK

i think you are making a huge mistake to disregard coaching, there are a ton of players who play on a far higher level than you that still use coaches

its good for someone to look at your game you can have some serious leaks in other areas of your game, you can be spewing a load of cash in certain areas and leaving a ton of dead money or value in other spots which can seriously effect your win rate, its so easy just to put it down to variance, by improving other areas you can seriously reduce downswings

it also sounds that you are letting bad variance effect your decisions thus you probably are losing value in these spots,

AMYBR

Your probably right bud.  In all honesty I have no issue with online coaching, but I couldnt take his offer seriously given the tone and nature of his posts on this thread.  But what you say is right.

N1CK

In Response to Re: Playing bad or Running bad?:

Your probably right bud.  In all honesty I have no issue with online coaching, but I couldnt take his offer seriously given the tone and nature of his posts on this thread.  But what you say is right.
Posted by AMYBR

i'm not saying take his coaching but he is a competent player and could be cheaper than the pros charge at the various training sites, if your losing over a 2+ year run chances are you do have some issues that need addressing and for the cost of coaching you will definitely recover those cost plus a lot more over the long term, but its all about how seriously you want to take your game