i need a re-think

The_Don90

Ok i have a problem. With BRM. As many know i was always a tournament player. I felt comfortable playing 99% of players in an mtt. However ive struggled to adapt to cash. I can have many profitable short sessions, Which means i make money.

So i'll take yesterday as a prime example. I sat down on NL4 for 2 hours im 2 BIs up. I knew i was starting to do a typical MTT player thing and change gear, so i took a break and done an mtt. That didnt go well. But instead of going back i went and done more. and a few sats.

This is a trypical day for me. Im no longer profitable in mtts as ive forgotten alot of the game i used to have for them, but i still have the mentality for mtts and not cash.

This means worse BRM because its not stable. This means im losing money more and more, and ive gone from a winning player to a losing player.

I know this is alot of stuff going on here in my head, and it probably doesnt make a lot of sense. But can anyone whos went through similar offer advice.

AMYBR

I can only speak for myself bud but cash, as is online cash, is something that I cant crack either.  For the record this doesnt make you a bad or unknowledgable player.  I put up my reasoning for my failures in a thread in the clinic tittled "I think I've got to the bottom of it" a weak or so ago.  I think it might be an interesting read for you.

My skillset online is a strictly tournament only affair.  Just as you say, I run well cash, but it quickly takes a U turn, again the reasoning for this is in the thread I mention.

Funny thing is I crush cash Live, I Just dont read well or even play well online cash.  Mainly to do with my ego and level of belief of others.  I upped my S+G buy in and have been doing pretty well.  Plus I increased buy in and quantity of DYM's significantly and it has payed dividends.  I think if you recognise there is a flaw or element where your weak in your game you can either strive to improve it/fix it or focus on what you know you can beat. 

There are aspects of my personality that make me a horrendous online cash player, it took me a long time to recognise it.  Mainly it was DOH's advice of significantly increasing volume.  But once a flaw is highlighted/recognised, one way or another (by striving to fix or simply avoid), it makes your overall game and confidence in your game all the stronger.

Long story short, I truly believe some people cant adapt their skillset, or may be just better off sticking to their strongest formats.  I'm one of them, I play with a few people who feel the same.  Its not a bad thing.

DOHHHHHHH

1) - Deposit - Whatever u can afford.

2) - Play NL4 and £2 mtts until you have £160. 

3)  - NL8 and £2 mtts until you have £250.

4) - NL10 and shots at £5 mtts when you have £250 until you reach £500.

5) - £500 you can table select 3/4 from the best tables available at 10 & 20nl.

6) - £750 Move up to 30nl, and some 20nl tables using notes to table select.

7) - £1000 you can multi table nl30, play pretty much whatever mtt you want, and withdraw any profit over 1k at the end of every week.

--------------------------------

Don't withdraw anything at all, or play anything you shouldn't until you get to stage 7.

If you keep getting to stage 3/4 then having a blow up, it will be harder to get to stage 7 next time.

Momentum is key when building a bankroll, I say it everytime, If you lose momentum, it all goes wrong.

You should be able to get to stage 2 before the end of the month, and stage 4 before the end of next month pretty comfortably.

------------------------------

V hypocritical comment coming from me, but spend less time talking/planning/messing about and more time playing.

You don't build bankrolls by posting on forums. (When you've built one, you can do what u want lol

The_Don90

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

I can only speak for myself bud but cash, as is online cash, is something that I cant crack either.  For the record this doesnt make you a bad or unknowledgable player.  I put up my reasoning for my failures in a thread in the clinic tittled "I think I've got to the bottom of it" a weak or so ago.  I think it might be an interesting read for you. My skillset online is a strictly tournament only affair.  Just as you say, I run well cash, but it quickly takes a U turn, again the reasoning for this is in the thread I mention. Funny thing is I crush cash Live, I Just dont read well or even play well online cash.  Mainly to do with my ego and level of belief of others.  I upped my S+G buy in and have been doing pretty well.  Plus I increased buy in and quantity of DYM's significantly and it has payed dividends.  I think if you recognise there is a flaw or element where your weak in your game you can either strive to improve it/fix it or focus on what you know you can beat.  There are aspects of my personality that make me a horrendous online cash player, it took me a long time to recognise it.  Mainly it was DOH's advice of significantly increasing volume.  But once a flaw is highlighted/recognised, one way or another (by striving to fix or simply avoid), it makes your overall game and confidence in your game all the stronger. Long story short, I truly believe some people cant adapt their skillset, or may be just better off sticking to their strongest formats.  I'm one of them, I play with a few people who feel the same.  Its not a bad thing.
Posted by AMYBR

Hi mate.

The biggest problem is im not longer profitable in mtts. So thats not an option any more. Cash im making money but im then changing gears as i would have a year or two ago in an mtt.

So ive actually now got no idea where im strongest. Cash but i cant sit for more than 2 hours or lose a BI because the reload feels weird. Or search and re-find that mtt spirt.

I may be misunderstanding your post thouhg.

DOHHHHHHH

......Obv if things go wrong at any stage just drop back a stage until you meet the requirements for the next stage again...

AMYBR

No your understanding it fine thedon, it did occur to me that there was a contradiction in my post as you said you'd kind of lost yoour way MTT wise.  Is this perhaps because of your new focus on cash though?

This contradiction was why i built in the S+G (up to 45 players) and DYM changes I've made.  True MTT's are always high variance.  But the skillset is similar to the (UP TO) 45 seater S+G's than cash.  Sounds like thats where your best game may be.

Just mostly trying to say that no matter what advice your given (no offense to the advice given gents) if the reason that your cash game is unsuccessful is outside of your technical game, then you may be chasing your tail for a while.  Some problems run pretty deep without easy fixes.  So plugging away until those "fringe" issues are dealt with isnt always the best thing. 

Your issues are probably no where near as stupid as mine   I'm not attempting to put a downer on you, its just my honest response.

CrazyBen23

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

1) - Deposit - Whatever u can afford. 2) - Play NL4 and £2 mtts until you have £160.  3)  - NL8 and £2 mtts until you have £250. 4) - NL10 and shots at £5 mtts when you have £250 until you reach £500. 5) - £500 you can table select 3/4 from the best tables available at 10 & 20nl. 6) - £750 Move up to 30nl, and some 20nl tables using notes to table select. 7) - £1000 you can multi table nl30, play pretty much whatever mtt you want, and withdraw any profit over 1k at the end of every week.

Great advice... need patience and disipline of a saint to do that tho lol

mattless

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

1) - Deposit - Whatever u can afford. 2) - Play NL4 and £2 mtts until you have £160.  3)  - NL8 and £2 mtts until you have £250. 4) - NL10 and shots at £5 mtts when you have £250 until you reach £500. 5) - £500 you can table select 3/4 from the best tables available at 10 & 20nl. 6) - £750 Move up to 30nl, and some 20nl tables using notes to table select. 7) - £1000 you can multi table nl30, play pretty much whatever mtt you want, and withdraw any profit over 1k at the end of every week. -------------------------------- Don't withdraw anything at all, or play anything you shouldn't until you get to stage 7. If you keep getting to stage 3/4 then having a blow up, it will be harder to get to stage 7 next time. Momentum is key when building a bankroll, I say it everytime, If you lose momentum, it all goes wrong. You should be able to get to stage 2 before the end of the month, and stage 4 before the end of next month pretty comfortably. ------------------------------ V hypocritical comment coming from me, but spend less time talking/planning/messing about and more time playing. You don't build bankrolls by posting on forums. (When you've built one, you can do what u want lol
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I think this is a bit bankroll nitty for a recreational player. I think you can play 10nl quite comfortably with £100-£150, drop down to 8nl below £100. Once you hit £200 you can play 20nl and £5 mtt and satelites for similar. At£300 experiment with 30nl but mainly 20nl still and the odd £10 mtt even. Beyond £500 and I think its up you but you could easily enter £20-£30 mtts and play a mixture of 30nl and 50nl

DOHHHHHHH

Fair doos.

I speak to Don quite abit and loads of times he's got to stage 3/4 then gone off the rails.

I just think the only way he's gonna get to the stage where he can play whatever he wants is by being really disciplined and strict with himself.

If I were to start again from 40 quid I'd prob be much more relaxed with my game selection.

But I can trust myself to stay away from big sats/mtts/cash shots etc etc.

Not sure Don can.

scotty77

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

1) - Deposit - Whatever u can afford. 2) - Play NL4 and £2 mtts until you have £160.  3)  - NL8 and £2 mtts until you have £250. 4) - NL10 and shots at £5 mtts when you have £250 until you reach £500. 5) - £500 you can table select 3/4 from the best tables available at 10 & 20nl. 6) - £750 Move up to 30nl, and some 20nl tables using notes to table select. 7) - £1000 you can multi table nl30, play pretty much whatever mtt you want, and withdraw any profit over 1k at the end of every week. -------------------------------- Don't withdraw anything at all, or play anything you shouldn't until you get to stage 7. If you keep getting to stage 3/4 then having a blow up, it will be harder to get to stage 7 next time. Momentum is key when building a bankroll, I say it everytime, If you lose momentum, it all goes wrong. You should be able to get to stage 2 before the end of the month, and stage 4 before the end of next month pretty comfortably. ------------------------------ V hypocritical comment coming from me, but spend less time talking/planning/messing about and more time playing. You don't build bankrolls by posting on forums. (When you've built one, you can do what u want lol
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

this.  especially all these threads/ideas for charity/making vids/challenges. 

you should know how to beat nl4 by now.  all thats stopping you is not getting the hours in.

you can only move up the levels if you sit down and play 3/4 2 hour sessions per day.  if you ever feel like tilting, then stop for a bit, make a drink and watch a bit of TV or whatever to cool down.

mattless

I don't know you Don, but it does seem to me that I rarely see you on tables. I have played alot of 8nl and 10nl on here as well as £2-10 mtts of all different kinds. I see a lot of your posts  in the Clinic and elsewhere, both asking and giving advice, you should have a handle on the lower levels by now.

With the right VOLUME and DISCIPLINE therfore moving through the 1st few levels of Dohhhhs plan (or a slightly less nitty one) should be simple enough.

GL at the tables

ZedsDeadBa

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

1) - Deposit - Whatever u can afford. 2) - Play NL4 and £2 mtts until you have £160.  3)  - NL8 and £2 mtts until you have £250. 4) - NL10 and shots at £5 mtts when you have £250 until you reach £500. You should be able to get to stage 2 before the end of the month, and stage 4 before the end of next month pretty comfortably.

Holy Horse vigana batman! I deposited £10 over two months ago now and I've still only got £80!

This has kinda shoved my head up my asre.

I only play cash at 4nl, do you think I should be trying a different format? Sitngo's maybe? Trouble is I find tournament poker so tediously slow.

Z.

DrSharp

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Holy Horse vigana batman! I deposited £10 over two months ago now and I've still only got £80! This has kinda shoved my head up my asre. I only play cash at 4nl, do you think I should be trying a different format? Sitngo's maybe? Trouble is I find tournament poker so tediously slow. Z.
Posted by ZedsDeadBa

Zed, i wouldnt worry about it too much. I deposited 8 quid at the end of January and now have 180 quid. Some styles take a bit longer than others.

N1CK

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Holy Horse vigana batman! I deposited £10 over two months ago now and I've still only got £80! This has kinda shoved my head up my asre. I only play cash at 4nl, do you think I should be trying a different format? Sitngo's maybe? Trouble is I find tournament poker so tediously slow. Z.
Posted by ZedsDeadBa

any profit is good profit and its alot better than a high percentage of other players will achieve, keep playing and keep improving your game

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Holy Horse vigana batman! I deposited £10 over two months ago now and I've still only got £80! This has kinda shoved my head up my asre. I only play cash at 4nl, do you think I should be trying a different format? Sitngo's maybe? Trouble is I find tournament poker so tediously slow. Z.
Posted by ZedsDeadBa

Huh?

What???

No!!!

You're doing great, why would you want to change??? Or even think that you should???

ZedsDeadBa

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Huh? What??? No!!! You're doing great, why would you want to change??? Or even think that you should???
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Because you said Don should be able to go from 4NL to 10NL and a £500 bankroll in two months!!!

Maybe I misunderstood but it seemed quite clear in your post.

Z.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Because you said Don should be able to go from 4NL to 10NL and a £500 bankroll in two months!!! Maybe I misunderstood but it seemed quite clear in your post. Z.
Posted by ZedsDeadBa

ive done it before i screwed up and went off the rails rying to play the best on sky. Which i wasnt ready for. i think thats what he means.

ZedsDeadBa

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : ive done it before i screwed up and went off the rails rying to play the best on sky. Which i wasnt ready for. i think thats what he means.
Posted by The_Don90

Ahh, I see, I thought that was a strategy that all new players should be expecting to achieve.

Serves me right for involving my self in your problems ;o))

Cheers,

Z.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Ahh, I see, I thought that was a strategy that all new players should be expecting to achieve. Serves me right for involving my self in your problems ;o)) Cheers, Z.
Posted by ZedsDeadBa

no its kool to ask. I think youve got a pretty neat profit for a tenner. hard to BR build from that small

SALT1R3

I don't have the biggest bankroll myself and was wondering a way to try and build mine. I usually play the £400 BH a few times a week (I know I should up my volume of how many I play but the footy is still on during the week lol!) and finish near the cash every time just about (had KK against AJ off the other night and guy hits a straight but what can you do! ) and came second in one a few weeks back. I enjoy these tourneys now that theres more play to them but I'm not earning much most of the time; just about getting my money back.

I want to try cash at 2/4 and have done it before but been burned (though I only stuck in a tenner every few weeks) so each felt was hard to take and I didn't have the discipline at the time. I feel I'm a much better player than I was back then and now have enough for over 30BI's at that level but don't know whether to try cash to raise my bankroll or stick to these tourneys where I could be playing for a few hours only to break even.

I'm in two minds whether to move to cash. I can afford to loss my complete roll if it comes to that so I wouldn't this time be playing with scared money, but I dunno lol!

Sorry if I hijacked your post a bit there Don but I had to get that off my chest hehe! Gl in rebuilding your roll mate!

The_Don90

In Response to Re: i need a re-think:

I don't have the biggest bankroll myself and was wondering a way to try and build mine. I usually play the £400 BH a few times a week (I know I should up my volume of how many I play but the footy is still on during the week lol!) and finish near the cash every time just about (had KK against AJ off the other night and guy hits a straight but what can you do! ) and came second in one a few weeks back. I enjoy these tourneys now that theres more play to them but I'm not earning much most of the time; just about getting my money back. I want to try cash at 2/4 and have done it before but been burned (though I only stuck in a tenner every few weeks) so each felt was hard to take and I didn't have the discipline at the time. I feel I'm a much better player than I was back then and now have enough for over 30BI's at that level but don't know whether to try cash to raise my bankroll or stick to these tourneys where I could be playing for a few hours only to break even. I'm in two minds whether to move to cash. I can afford to loss my complete roll if it comes to that so I wouldn't this time be playing with scared money, but I dunno lol! Sorry if I hijacked your post a bit there Don but I had to get that off my chest hehe! Gl in rebuilding your roll mate!
Posted by SALT1R3

No hassles mate. I think this is an ideal place to post this,