I can only speak for myself bud but cash, as is online cash, is something that I cant crack either. For the record this doesnt make you a bad or unknowledgable player. I put up my reasoning for my failures in a thread in the clinic tittled "I think I've got to the bottom of it" a weak or so ago. I think it might be an interesting read for you. My skillset online is a strictly tournament only affair. Just as you say, I run well cash, but it quickly takes a U turn, again the reasoning for this is in the thread I mention. Funny thing is I crush cash Live, I Just dont read well or even play well online cash. Mainly to do with my ego and level of belief of others. I upped my S+G buy in and have been doing pretty well. Plus I increased buy in and quantity of DYM's significantly and it has payed dividends. I think if you recognise there is a flaw or element where your weak in your game you can either strive to improve it/fix it or focus on what you know you can beat. There are aspects of my personality that make me a horrendous online cash player, it took me a long time to recognise it. Mainly it was DOH's advice of significantly increasing volume. But once a flaw is highlighted/recognised, one way or another (by striving to fix or simply avoid), it makes your overall game and confidence in your game all the stronger. Long story short, I truly believe some people cant adapt their skillset, or may be just better off sticking to their strongest formats. I'm one of them, I play with a few people who feel the same. Its not a bad thing. Posted by AMYBR[/Q
Thats why you never listen or take advice when you ask for it and other peoples views are different from what you want to hear when you post on here
Wow very charming attack. If you took the time to read more you'd see that I'd already discussed this, acknowledging many aspects widely. I'm even acknowledging it in the thread that your replying to.... so pointing out the obvious much??
Just a really classy low blow, in an utterly needless way. Very classy bud.
But just to reply, you dont know anything about me. These are my genuine flaws in regard to online cash that I already fully acknowledge and am aware of. Also its not that I dont listen, if you again take the time to take a broader view you'll see thats not the case at all. But your right I dont think in full alignment with others. Since when has that been a bad thing? The sum of all poker knowledge does not lie in this forum. Plus you read any hand in the clinic, ask a variety of fulltime pro's, there will always be hugely different approaches to the game. But if someone says something I dont agree with, or I cant get behind, then I'm going to say it.
Hi Don If you are trying to increase your bankroll (and who isn't!) and you are able to be a couple of BI's up on cash after a few hours then stop then before you change gears. Not sure why you would change gears if what you were doing previously was working unless the table dynamic has changed. You'll see your BR rise continually and so will your confidence. Hard to do I know, as I've found to my cost more than once! You know that mtt's have huge variance unless you think it is your play that's not right? I would suggest freerolls but not sure they would help!
I don't have the biggest bankroll myself and was wondering a way to try and build mine. I usually play the £400 BH a few times a week (I know I should up my volume of how many I play but the footy is still on during the week lol!) and finish near the cash every time just about (had KK against AJ off the other night and guy hits a straight but what can you do! ) and came second in one a few weeks back. I enjoy these tourneys now that theres more play to them but I'm not earning much most of the time; just about getting my money back. I want to try cash at 2/4 and have done it before but been burned (though I only stuck in a tenner every few weeks) so each felt was hard to take and I didn't have the discipline at the time. I feel I'm a much better player than I was back then and now have enough for over 30BI's at that level but don't know whether to try cash to raise my bankroll or stick to these tourneys where I could be playing for a few hours only to break even. I'm in two minds whether to move to cash. I can afford to loss my complete roll if it comes to that so I wouldn't this time be playing with scared money, but I dunno lol! Sorry if I hijacked your post a bit there Don but I had to get that off my chest hehe! Gl in rebuilding your roll mate! Posted by SALT1R3
There is a bit of variance at nl4 given people's calling/gambling range. If you can do it 2 tabling might be a good way to get yourself into it. You see (not necessarily play) more hands but it also concentrates your mind. It can be frustrating though.
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : this. especially all these threads/ideas for charity/making vids/challenges. you should know how to beat nl4 by now. all thats stopping you is not getting the hours in. you can only move up the levels if you sit down and play 3/4 2 hour sessions per day. if you ever feel like tilting, then stop for a bit, make a drink and watch a bit of TV or whatever to cool down. Posted by scotty77
im struggling with the concept of "changing gears" at NL4. do u mean u are raisning lots and trying to steal lots, if so why? if u find this sit out stand, bank ur profit, give it 15 mins find a new table start again Posted by TINTIN
Boredom I think.
Don dreams of GUKPT final tables, WSOP main events, bracelets and millions of $$$.
So even though he's 4 buy ins up within an hour, quadroupling his BR in the process, it's just not enough!!!
"Coz there's a GUKPT sat in an hour for 3/4 of my br and I'm gonna win it all!!!" lol
get ur mind focused on what u are playing, there aint no quick way to do it thats why they call it the grind.
im no great shake at this game in fact many will describe me as a poor player but heres how my weekend went,all at NL4
got £15 cash for points bonus on friday, i had 0 balance before this as i havent deposited anything this year coz im out of work, previous i took a freeroll win of £5 into £50 n withdrew it then £1.10freeroll win into £70 and done the same, both since start of april, the reason i got my CFP bonus . anyway
friday- started 3 tabling playing super tight till i got in front, kept 3 quid back incase of accident, big hands get paid at this level, punish the others and bet big when uv got it, eventually got the balance ticking over, played 4 sessions totaling about 9 hours and had reached £45.
Saturday- spent the £5 on a few wee bets for a little interset on tv so began poker with £40,started 4 tabling and played much the same quite tight ABC poker, i will admit i ran well for most of the day until my last mini session where i lost a couple of buyins before winning them back, in total i played for 12 hours turning £40 into £90, my bets never came in so i won about 12 buyins in 12 hours.
sunday- now this was a grind, day started slowly but after some early losses i got it back and moved on, hit the £98 mark but no further, took a few hits towards the end and ended the day showing a 26p profit after another 12 hours
monday- grinded the day out in min sessions again got up to £115 before i ran into a golden child and a great deal of bad luck ended the day after 11 hours up £10 at the £100 mark. played about another 12 hours
Tuesday- i know its not the weekend anymore but i had decided i was withdrawing £80 n keeping 20 in so i played about in the afternon and turned the 20 into 40 so that gave me a nice withdrawal figure of £100 which i done, i left in £20 which has been reduced to £17, im for a few days off before i start again.
this has been a bit long winded and can look like a bit of a boast but what im trying to show is that you need to put the hours in to get results, mini session of 2-3 hours short break then start again, if u find u have built a stack n starting to donk some of it off then stand and find a new table n refocus. it took me over 50 hours to build up £100 and also got another £15 coming next month CFP. have a cllear mind to make the most of the sessions, remember you wont show a profit for every session as no matter how well you play u can be done by bad luck,
Building a roll from NL4 can be done and if u are prepared to put in the volume, tables and time
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Boredom I think. Don dreams of GUKPT final tables, WSOP main events, bracelets and millions of $$$. So even though he's 4 buy ins up within an hour, quadroupling his BR in the process, it's just not enough!!! "Coz there's a GUKPT sat in an hour for 3/4 of my br and I'm gonna win it all!!!" lol Posted by DOHHHHHHH
theres his problem, forget big dreams for now, if he serious about building a roll on cash then stay away from tourneys,
Hi Don, was good to meet you on Saturday(even though i didna ken WTF you were saying half the time,LOL)
You have been given some excellent advice here m8, especially Scotty 77 and Doh. PLEASE TAKE THIS ADVICE.
I would also like to add, and please take this in the spirit it is intended :- DONT TAKE YOUR EGO TO THE TABLE.
It can be easy to sit at NL4 and NL8 and build your stack up quite quickly but it is what you do once you have acvhieved this that is the root of your problem. You should be either leaving that table and moving to another,cos there are plenty to choose from, continue playing the way you have played or log off NOT choosing to try and change gears as you put it when i think what you really mean is that you will try and outplay inferior players with little or no regard for the luck element.
Anyway m8 GL with it and as Scotty says concentrate on playing and forget the other distractions.
p.s. I know i am no great player(no patience) myself but i deposited $150 online in Jan 2007 and have not deposited since which is ok for a recreational player who plays every night of the week.
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Boredom I think. Don dreams of GUKPT final tables, WSOP main events, bracelets and millions of $$$. So even though he's 4 buy ins up within an hour, quadroupling his BR in the process, it's just not enough!!! "Coz there's a GUKPT sat in an hour for 3/4 of my br and I'm gonna win it all!!!" lol Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Bit harsh Doh but thats me aswell lol in a nutshell !!
I have the worst BRM in history, constantly taking shots at like 30%-50% of my BR so.... DON there are only two ways to increase you BR and play higher limits The slow Grind The get rich quick taking shots in MTT'S
You probably just experiencing a bad run in MTT's, this can go on for like 10-15 MTT's so .... chin up But if you running good play as many MTT's possible tbh
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : no its kool to ask. I think youve got a pretty neat profit for a tenner. hard to BR build from that small Posted by The_Don90
Hi Don
You've often been kind enough to respond to my posts so I hope you don't mind a relative newcomer's thoughts.
Not been playing on-line long (since Jan). Messed about a bit and kept doing my (relatively tiny) stack by trying to accelerate up the DYM and MTT levels without earning the right - or the money!
Switched to 2/4 cash. Making slow progress but doing ok now I'm playing 2-3 tables.
The thing I've found is that cash has completely sh*gged my MTT play and I daren't even sit down at a dym any more! Way too aggressive early.
One thing I've found helps me, both from donking out on cash and resetting my mtt play is the deep stacks, where one moment of cash-induced madness doesn't end my tourney. I think it's improving my cash play too.
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : There is a bit of variance at nl4 given people's calling/gambling range. If you can do it 2 tabling might be a good way to get yourself into it. You see (not necessarily play) more hands but it also concentrates your mind. It can be frustrating though. Posted by walesboy
Yeah I've never multi-tabled and find it hard enough sometimes concentrating on everyone at my own table till I pick up reads on them lol. I don't think I'm at that stage of being able to play a few tables at once though I know where your coming from about it sharpening your mind to possibly play better.
Do you think I should deposit a wee bit more and switch to 4/8 where there would perhaps be less gambling and more proper play involved?
Wow very charming attack. If you took the time to read more you'd see that I'd already discussed this, acknowledging many aspects widely. I'm even acknowledging it in the thread that your replying to.... so pointing out the obvious much?? Just a really classy low blow, in an utterly needless way. Very classy bud. But just to reply, you dont know anything about me. These are my genuine flaws in regard to online cash that I already fully acknowledge and am aware of. Also its not that I dont listen, if you again take the time to take a broader view you'll see thats not the case at all. But your right I dont think in full alignment with others. Since when has that been a bad thing? The sum of all poker knowledge does not lie in this forum. Plus you read any hand in the clinic, ask a variety of fulltime pro's, there will always be hugely different approaches to the game. But if someone says something I dont agree with, or I cant get behind, then I'm going to say it. Posted by AMYBR
not a charmin attack at all. just a view i have of you & afew others have of you(even if they wont say it direct). il tell you, you hate it when someone callenges your opinion all because you put up hands you know the outcome of then it makes you look good when the forum says diff thats all. its not an attack its just a general view on the hands you talk about
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : not a charmin attack at all. just a view i have of you & afew others have of you(even if they wont say it direct) Everyone is entitled to their opinion bud. I recognise my flaws for what they are and fully own up to them, frequently. I just dont undertand your post. Your highlighting what I myself am highlighting, when trying to have someone benefit from my mistakes. You again drawing attention no it critically is pretty petty and childish.
. il tell you, you hate it when someone callenges your opinion. I understand that this is sometimes how I come across, but it isnt my intention. I am genuinely interested in other peoples opinion/approach. I will state the reasoning for my counter approach, but yes I understand why it may seem this way to others and have aplogised for it.
all because you put up hands you know the outcome of then it makes you look good when the forum says diff thats all. If you can give me even one example of this I'll eat my middle toe, left foot.(Other than a folded boat over boat. Wasnt trying to look clever, simply wanted others POV on hand. But I assume this is your solitary exhibit A). its not an attack its just a general view on the hands you talk about Posted by seppe
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Yeah I've never multi-tabled and find it hard enough sometimes concentrating on everyone at my own table till I pick up reads on them lol. I don't think I'm at that stage of being able to play a few tables at once though I know where your coming from about it sharpening your mind to possibly play better. Do you think I should deposit a wee bit more and switch to 4/8 where there would perhaps be less gambling and more proper play involved? Posted by SALT1R3
I've never played at the heady heights of 4/8. Was recreational for a while but trying to play more now to build the br. However, it has been said on threads before by players who play at much higher buyins that there isn't much difference between 2/4 and 4/8 in terms of play. It might be worth you 2 tabling with one being a small dym? I sometimes do that if I can't find another cash table. The small dyms are all about playing tight so it might give you experience that way?
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : Hi Don You've often been kind enough to respond to my posts so I hope you don't mind a relative newcomer's thoughts. Not been playing on-line long (since Jan). Messed about a bit and kept doing my (relatively tiny) stack by trying to accelerate up the DYM and MTT levels without earning the right - or the money! Switched to 2/4 cash. Making slow progress but doing ok now I'm playing 2-3 tables. The thing I've found is that cash has completely sh*gged my MTT play and I daren't even sit down at a dym any more! Way too aggressive early. One thing I've found helps me, both from donking out on cash and resetting my mtt play is the deep stacks, where one moment of cash-induced madness doesn't end my tourney. I think it's improving my cash play too. Anyway mate. Hope you get your mojo back. Posted by Prop60
yea definetly can relate to this. Im comfortable, but no good across all disiplines. Ive taken advice for deicated cash players and i play a different game completely in cash. Ive taken advice from good dym players and although i think im still a losing dym player im cashing around the break even mark there now. Mtts i was always reasonable at, just cant crack a big one. Ive never really discussed my mtt game with anyone as my style is pretty unique when it comes to mtts. (i do it all back to front.) but that works for me. And it allows me to use table image.
Because i have 3 seperate games, i cant play any at the same time, sometimes get away with a dym along with an mtt. But on the whole its one or the other. However i guess the good thing is if someone makes a note of me in one disipline is useless in another.
In Response to Re: i need a re-think : I've never played at the heady heights of 4/8. Was recreational for a while but trying to play more now to build the br. However, it has been said on threads before by players who play at much higher buyins that there isn't much difference between 2/4 and 4/8 in terms of play. It might be worth you 2 tabling with one being a small dym? I sometimes do that if I can't find another cash table. The small dyms are all about playing tight so it might give you experience that way? Posted by walesboy
NL8 from what ive seen over the last month is hard to put my finger on what is different playwise compared to NL4, but it does seem different. But I have noticed the following
- a few less limpers (not many) per table, but certainly less than NL4. More people will fold pre - Lots and lots of people that buyin for 25% or so of the full buyin.....and I mean loads. on NL4 they pretty much buy in for the same amount but of course thats only 50%....and I believe there are more that buyin for the full amount at NL4. - more TAG players (again not many but a few) - I think you get alot more people that are maniacs and happy to get all in on the flop with air or at best bottom pair - seen some really crazy plays. These seem to be people buying in for a small amount and trying to double up real quick.....alot of them tend to disapear shortly after if succesfull/ or not!!
Stratagy is the same. ABC, Bet hard, Bet big if hit etc etc.
Anyway Ive only been playing consistantly at this level for a month, and I only play for few nights a week after work, so cant really give an accurate POV, but this is just what ive seen so far.
Yeah I played a few days at NL8 and though I was up on it I wasn't too comfortable playing it with my bankroll of <20 BI's at it. Switched to NL4 and feel a lot better playing there for the moment; doing ok at it as well, getting decent reads on most players who sit down there so I know who I can make moves on if need be. Just been playing ABC and so far so good.
Played a few dym's and I'm a decent tourney player (not awesome - just decent lol) but its a wee bit too mechanical for me. I like BH's more but am going to stick to cash for the time being (and make sure to avoid some of the posters on here at the moment to give my bankroll the best possible chance to increase lol! ).
Comments
Just a really classy low blow, in an utterly needless way. Very classy bud.
But just to reply, you dont know anything about me. These are my genuine flaws in regard to online cash that I already fully acknowledge and am aware of. Also its not that I dont listen, if you again take the time to take a broader view you'll see thats not the case at all. But your right I dont think in full alignment with others. Since when has that been a bad thing? The sum of all poker knowledge does not lie in this forum. Plus you read any hand in the clinic, ask a variety of fulltime pro's, there will always be hugely different approaches to the game. But if someone says something I dont agree with, or I cant get behind, then I'm going to say it.
If you are trying to increase your bankroll (and who isn't!) and you are able to be a couple of BI's up on cash after a few hours then stop then before you change gears. Not sure why you would change gears if what you were doing previously was working unless the table dynamic has changed. You'll see your BR rise continually and so will your confidence. Hard to do I know, as I've found to my cost more than once!
You know that mtt's have huge variance unless you think it is your play that's not right? I would suggest freerolls but not sure they would help!
I have the worst BRM in history, constantly taking shots at like 30%-50% of my BR so.... DON there are only two ways to increase you BR and play higher limits
The slow Grind
The get rich quick taking shots in MTT'S
You probably just experiencing a bad run in MTT's, this can go on for like 10-15 MTT's so .... chin up
But if you running good play as many MTT's possible tbh
Hi Don
You've often been kind enough to respond to my posts so I hope you don't mind a relative newcomer's thoughts.
Not been playing on-line long (since Jan). Messed about a bit and kept doing my (relatively tiny) stack by trying to accelerate up the DYM and MTT levels without earning the right - or the money!
Switched to 2/4 cash. Making slow progress but doing ok now I'm playing 2-3 tables.
The thing I've found is that cash has completely sh*gged my MTT play and I daren't even sit down at a dym any more! Way too aggressive early.
One thing I've found helps me, both from donking out on cash and resetting my mtt play is the deep stacks, where one moment of cash-induced madness doesn't end my tourney. I think it's improving my cash play too.
Anyway mate. Hope you get your mojo back.
Do you think I should deposit a wee bit more and switch to 4/8 where there would perhaps be less gambling and more proper play involved?
However, it has been said on threads before by players who play at much higher buyins that there isn't much difference between 2/4 and 4/8 in terms of play.
It might be worth you 2 tabling with one being a small dym? I sometimes do that if I can't find another cash table. The small dyms are all about playing tight so it might give you experience that way?
Because i have 3 seperate games, i cant play any at the same time, sometimes get away with a dym along with an mtt. But on the whole its one or the other. However i guess the good thing is if someone makes a note of me in one disipline is useless in another.
- a few less limpers (not many) per table, but certainly less than NL4. More people will fold pre
- Lots and lots of people that buyin for 25% or so of the full buyin.....and I mean loads. on NL4 they pretty much buy in for the same amount but of course thats only 50%....and I believe there are more that buyin for the full amount at NL4.
- more TAG players (again not many but a few)
- I think you get alot more people that are maniacs and happy to get all in on the flop with air or at best bottom pair - seen some really crazy plays. These seem to be people buying in for a small amount and trying to double up real quick.....alot of them tend to disapear shortly after if succesfull/ or not!!
Stratagy is the same. ABC, Bet hard, Bet big if hit etc etc.
Anyway Ive only been playing consistantly at this level for a month, and I only play for few nights a week after work, so cant really give an accurate POV, but this is just what ive seen so far.
Played a few dym's and I'm a decent tourney player (not awesome - just decent lol) but its a wee bit too mechanical for me. I like BH's more but am going to stick to cash for the time being (and make sure to avoid some of the posters on here at the moment to give my bankroll the best possible chance to increase lol!