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AA Line Check

grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
edited May 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Villain hasnt got out of line, flats opens pre a good bit, doesnt seem terrible

Interested in what people think of this line, fwiw I considered folding flop much more than I cosidered raising

Turn I have no idea what 1/3 pot bet means, is it more likely a draw?


journeyboy 		Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £27.10
punxxs_13 Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £41.68
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • A
     
grantorino Raise  £0.80 £1.10 £46.47
xxxx Call  £0.80 £1.90 £43.45
trojan57 Fold     
bubbles29 Fold     
journeyboy Fold     
punxxs_13 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 3
  • Q
     
grantorino Bet  £1.43 £3.33 £45.04
xxxx Raise  £6.19 £9.52 £37.26
grantorino Call  £4.76 £14.28 £40.28
Turn
   
  • 9
     
grantorino Check     
xxxxBet  £5.60 £19.88 £31.66
grantorino Call  £5.60 £25.48 £34.68
River
   
  • J
     
grantorino Check     
xxxx Check    
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Comments

  • CrazyBen23CrazyBen23 Member Posts: 865
    edited May 2011
    This deep i'd play it exact same
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    I dont think i'd check turn with flush draw out there, villain could easy have AJ suited or AK

    river pretty safe was your plan to check / call? busted flush draws etc id prob do small value bet on end £9
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    Turn check is standard when I flat flop, no?

    Yeah planned to c/c reasonable sized river bet. Not sure theres that many hands I get value from if I bet
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2011
    Seen as you're very deep I like the way it's played, big bonus getting the check behind on river. ;)
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited May 2011
    did you think about c/r turn when he makes that bet? its just to small if he has you beat
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited May 2011
    I think descision really should be made on flop your 3 betting to pot commit or making a bizarre fold on a dry board. The flat makes no sense to me.  If hes made a set are you folding turn?

    I know your games solid, but just seems a really bad line with A's HU, your way ahead or very unlucky to be behind.  River goes check check, I assume your calling a bet?  This hand should have been decided on flop IMO.  Going into check call mode is utterly bizarre.  You should be extractimg, not backing off, if it turns out your behind its unavoidable.  Its literally a perfect board to get raised on with A's w/out the A hitting.

    If you update the post showing you lost the minimum, opponent holding Q's/3's its utterly immaterial.

    He's as easily raising AQ, KQ two spades than a set on the flop.  I do not understand the defensive line. 
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited May 2011
    This bugged my obsessive brain, so got up and fired up the laptop again.

    I just dont get it, seriously.  You play cash, 6 handed, find A's isolate to one player.  Get a great flop, then shutdown action, adopting a check call strategy because you met resistance on the flop.

    Essentially you have the 4th nuts.  If your opponent has set mined are you check folding turn/river? No. 

    Why the defensive line??  From his pov he's betting so many hands for value.  You shut down action fearing the worst!  You go brole its very unlucky/cooler, but you have to bet for value here.

    You are uber critical of every post I put up at larger stakes than this, yet play this hand this way.  Its bonkers...

    Why are you looking to bluffcatch/pot contol/cr.  Just put some money in there.
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  • SmitalosSmitalos Member Posts: 539
    edited May 2011
    Love the line, would have played it the exact same way. I see way too many donks go broke with one pair, and just because it's the "bullets", they're suddenly allowed to go broke with it. Nah, i reckon you played it spot on.

    Definitely can't 3bet flop with just one pair no draw,
    Definitely can't then lead the turn as his flop range is kinda polarized with such a huge raise (Sets v FD's) and you betting has no real value. You want FD's to keep barreling, and you don't want to give sets another chance to raise you.
    Definitely can't check-raise turn as some villians may check behind with FD (even though with him jamming pot in your eye on the flop, i think by the turn you should start to feel easier about your hand)
    Definitely can't lead river, same reason as before, way ahead-way behind sitch, so give him the lead.

    wp nh, ship the mohnies.
    Cheers,
    Carlos Smitalos
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  • mattlessmattless Member Posts: 194
    edited May 2011
    Both more than 200 bigs deep, I think it's fine. Is an argument to to rr flop but once the decision has been made to flat it is c/c all the way.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    Turn check is standard when I flat flop, no? Yeah planned to c/c reasonable sized river bet. Not sure theres that many hands I get value from if I bet
    Posted by grantorino
    Sort of but was your plan to check-raise then? then not too bad but as goes check, check on turn surely your missing out value on the river. I think your getting called from someone with a queen on the river too so defo some value out there, I dont mind check/call mode sometimes but looks to me that you have missed value here. Like AMYB says pretty ul if you are beat and you havent really put them to test other then bet out flop and called
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    i'd like to add how the villain has played the hand the only hand i think that beats you is QJ which he bets river
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited May 2011
    I think c/ring the river would be terrible.

    I'd play it the same, nh wp imo.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    i'd like to add how the villain has played the hand the only hand i think that beats you is QJ which he bets river
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    When the villain raises the flop, it gives us a massive headache.....

    We have 1 pair out of position 240xbb deep on a wet-ish board facing a big raise......

    Remember on the river, we are first to act, we don't know he's going to check behind. I think you're letting his check behind influence your analysis. 

    I'm not worried about missing value here, I've got a very marginal hand, I will be happy to see a check behind!!


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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check : Sort of but was your plan to check-raise then? then not too bad but as goes check, check on turn surely your missing out value on the river. I think your getting called from someone with a queen on the river too so defo some value out there, I dont mind check/call mode sometimes but looks to me that you have missed value here. Like AMYB says pretty ul if you are beat and you havent really put them to test other then bet out flop and called
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    Turn didnt go check, check. I possibly could lead river, and i would if turn checked thru, but I think its very thin and he may bet a busted flush, which i think is a big % of hands I beat
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    did you think about c/r turn when he makes that bet? its just to small if he has you beat
    Posted by N1CK
    I think its likely Im ahead after turn bet, but Im not sure he calls a raise with much of range I am ahead of and if he 3bets me it sucks
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check : Turn didnt go check, check. I possibly could lead river, and i would if turn checked thru, but I think its very thin and he may bet a busted flush, which i think is a big % of hands I beat
    Posted by grantorino
    Oh yeah sorry me not reading properly lol, in that case ignore all above played fine imo. obv calling river bet if they bet
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    I think descision really should be made on flop your 3 betting to pot commit or making a bizarre fold on a dry board. The flat makes no sense to me.  If hes made a set are you folding turn?
     Possibly on a spade turn, otherwise no. If I was sure he has a set i fold flop, and I dont think folding flop is completely out of the question here
    I know your games solid, but just seems a really bad line with A's HU, your way ahead or very unlucky to be behind.  River goes check check, I assume your calling a bet? Yes
      This hand should have been decided on flop IMO.  Going into check call mode is utterly bizarre.  You should be extractimg, not backing off, if it turns out your behind its unavoidable.  Its literally a perfect board to get raised on with A's w/out the A hitting.
    Really? that depends on his raising range. If I 3bet how many of his wores hands continue this deep? 
    If you update the post showing you lost the minimum, opponent holding Q's/3's its utterly immaterial. He's as easily raising AQ, KQ two spades than a set on the flop.  I do not understand the defensive line.
    Well, he mightnt always raise fds, he prob doesnt raise KQ (I cant see why he would, unless he thinks I spew lots) he wont always raise AQ imo. Obv results dont matter 
    Posted by AMYBR
    Whether i can get it in on flop depends on 2 things:
    1. His flop raising range after flatting my utg open pre 225BB deep
    2. What he does with each part of that range if I 3bet
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited May 2011
    Was a bit tilted when I wrote that so sorry if It came across critical.

    This pot does boil down to one simple thing for me.  Opponent lets you off very cheaply at turn and river.  You clearly have the best hand  I assume when river goes check check.  Say opponent does make huge value bets on turn river, if you feel you have got lucky and gone behind, your calling one more large bullet at turn, very least.

    SO YOU HAVE TO 3BET FLOP, the extra bet there gives you far more information going to the turn then being forced to call two extra streets at half+ pot sized bets.  Plus If you havent gone behind you take back the control in the hand extracting value.

    All this talk of seeing people go broke with A's when sat 240BB deep.  Its a 6 max cash game, HU to the flop!  I disagree, Villain has to raise what he may perceive as your standard c-bet Holding QA QK KK, perhaps slightly weaker Q.  He may be inflating pot with spades.  His raise gains him the information that he needs going to the turn, otherwise he is left flatting three streets.

    Like I sad if you've got unlucky here, you go broke, reload.  The defensive line with A's @ 6 max on that board is just kind of a waste. 
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check : I think its likely Im ahead after turn bet, but Im not sure he calls a raise with much of range I am ahead of and if he 3bets me it sucks
    Posted by grantorino
    it just looks like a weak continuation of a fd, by calling it just gives him a good price for a bad bet, i dont think your going to get owned here much
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: AA Line Check:
    Was a bit tilted when I wrote that so sorry if It came across critical. This pot does boil down to one simple thing for me.  Opponent lets you off very cheaply at turn and river.  You clearly have the best hand  I assume when river goes check check.  Say opponent does make huge value bets on turn river, if you feel you have got lucky and gone behind, your calling one more large bullet at turn, very least. SO YOU HAVE TO 3BET FLOP, the extra bet there gives you far more information going to the turn then being forced to call two extra streets at half+ pot sized bets.  Plus If you havent gone behind you take back the control in the hand extracting value. All this talk of seeing people go broke with A's when sat 240BB deep.  Its a 6 max cash game, HU to the flop!  I disagree, Villain has to raise what he may perceive as your standard c-bet Holding QA QK KK, perhaps slightly weaker Q.  He may be inflating pot with spades.  His raise gains him the information that he needs going to the turn, otherwise he is left flatting three streets. Like I sad if you've got unlucky here, you go broke, reload.  The defensive line with A's @ 6 max on that board is just kind of a waste. 
    Posted by AMYBR
    It does if we raise again........By flatting we keep our range wider therefore giving him less information. All he knows from our flat is that we haven't got total air. We could have flush draws, combo draws, strong top pair, weak top pair, he's still non-the wiser.


    If we stack off an go broke on the flop here, I think we'd be kidding ourselves if we attributed it to bad luck.

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