a good read, hope you havent just made the games harder Posted by TINTIN
I agree - an interesting read, but it will make it harder for players already playing levelthe more ppl read it
it reminds me a bit of Irishrovers threads about DYM,s - It basically spelt out the optimum way to play them and got read by a lot of ppl which resulted in everyone playing them the same way
I wouldn't worry about this thread making nl4 harder if I were you.......
Theres micro stakes strategy all over the internet, if people want it, they can get it. This is more likely to help the semi-competent players crush the fish even more, rather than help the total fish compete.
Will probably only help 1% of nl4 players on sky, if that. I doubt 1% will even read it.
In Response to Re: NL4 strategy from DOHHHHHH (v long) : but thats the thing, against these players on the whole we have a HUGE edge Posted by The_Don90
So when are you getting your money in a better spot (not that you should wait for one anyway)? No way we have enough of an edge to pass up these kind of big +EV spots. We shouldnt be passing up any +EV spots anyway, we want to maximise profit.
I think people overestimate their edge in these games. Sure you may be a way better player than the fish, that doesnt mean you can take variance completely out of the game
In Response to Re: NL4 strategy from DOHHHHHH (v long) : So when are you getting your money in a better spot (not that you should wait for one anyway)? No way we have enough of an edge to pass up these kind of big +EV spots. We shouldnt be passing up any +EV spots anyway, we want to maximise profit. I think people overestimate their edge in these games. Sure you may be a way better player than the fish, that doesnt mean you can take variance completely out of the game Posted by grantorino
I try to avoid 100BB pots with anything less than TPTK against these guys. So thats AK, AQ type hands, AJ is pretty vunrable on a J high flop still. Infact in general Overpairs and TPTK is my stack off min
In Response to Re: NL4 strategy from DOHHHHHH (v long) : So when are you getting your money in a better spot (not that you should wait for one anyway)? No way we have enough of an edge to pass up these kind of big +EV spots. We shouldnt be passing up any +EV spots anyway, we want to maximise profit. I think people overestimate their edge in these games. Sure you may be a way better player than the fish, that doesnt mean you can take variance completely out of the game Posted by grantorino
I'll try and rephrase what I'm saying, I think maybe it was a little muddled.
If you are rolled for the level, you should take every single +EV spot you can. TPGK against a random maniac=+EV.
Note, this only applies if you are properly rolled.
The thing that sets NL4 apart from everything else on this site, is you can't go any lower. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you lose buyins, you can't just drop down to rebuild- it is the bottom. Not everyone can afford to dump 20 buyins down to start up- a lot of people can only really put down £10/20 as their starting roll.
This CAN be built up at NL4 if you play super tight poker.
If you only have 2.5 buyins, then playing against maniacs is just not a safe way to build your roll. You're gambling. Maniacs are totally unpredictable, chuck chips in at will, and could have anything. This is not desirable with a small roll.Yes, when you have TPGK you're ahead of his range- that's not enough. He could have straight draw, a flush draw, a similar pair to give him plenty of live outs, or he could have a set/2 pair/overpair/better kicker to be dominating you. You have no idea what you're up against, and this is bad news for your short bankroll.
Set against this is the sheer army of NL4 standard fish, who play a similar way- limp/call preflop, check/fold with absolutely nothing, check/call with any pair any draw, raise huge with the nuts. That is simple as anything to play against- yes, you can get outdrawn, but they tend to announce with neon lights that they just spiked their gutshot. If you get all your money in before they raise, you're ahead 90% of the time. If they do suck out on you, well- you can't escape variance completely, as you said. But you can sure try to minimise it.
If you do get caught against a maniac, make sure you have a real strong hand. If you're going to go allin, it should be with a bare minimum of 2 pair, assuming you're on a short roll. If you're rolled, all these caveats don't apply- just take your +EV spots and enjoy.
None of this super cagey approach is applicable to the higher limits- because if you're playing this way, you should be dropping down. It's just you can't do that here, and you need to start somewhere.
The thing about NL4 is it's full of players who don't know what there doing.
If you want to guess what they are doing then good luck because they don't even know what there doing
Just play solid ABC poker - raise pre 4x 5x - bet when you have it - check/fold when you don't
Fold when you think your beat
don't bluff anyone
There are so many call to fold players (call a raise OOP and then fold to your c-bet)
One thing you need to do if you want to improve at this level is work out what players full into what category.
reg - solid - tight - nit - DON'T PLAY THESE
PLAY ALL THESE
Station
maniac
Likes to bluff on the end
loves a c-bet
maniac open shoves with a9o
super aggroo 10x bb raiser, always 3 bets, 4 bets way too much
aggro - raies all the time, always bets
thinks every bluffs
donk - loves a donk donk donk lead - such a donk - must be a donk- stupid donk play - i want his money
fishy fish i pay anything for my gutshot fish fish
etc.... etc...
Once you start making simple notes then they will help you and you will start to feel comfortable at NL4
Don't start dancing with squeeze plays and floats because the fish don't understand D
The fish UTG+2 has 88 and he ain't folding because thats his front door number
If your new to NL4 good luck and most of all enjoy, it's not a lot of money to loose and hey you should only be playing with money you can afford to loose.
In Response to Re: NL4 strategy from DOHHHHHH (v long) : I agree - an interesting read, but it will make it harder for players already playing levelthe more ppl read it it reminds me a bit of Irishrovers threads about DYM,s - It basically spelt out the optimum way to play them and got read by a lot of ppl which resulted in everyone playing them the same way Posted by MP33
You can't stop players from becoming better, if everyone stayed at the same level Doohhhh would not have put this thread together.
Imo , with approx 2 years of play at nl4 nl8 and nl10 there is virtually no difference in the play , it just has players with bigger rolls as you go up the levels xx
Yeah brilliant thread Doh, I'd already read it in the Sky Poker School section because you pointed me there recently but I just thought I'd say how great it was again.
Also, to the other people who mentioned it, I wouldn't worry about this helping everyone to get good and 4NL becoming tough, because most of these fish are just playing for a bit of a gamble and never venture anywhere near the forum and never intend to improve their game. These are the people who say it's all luck anyway, so how could you improve your game??
Comments
it reminds me a bit of Irishrovers threads about DYM,s - It basically spelt out the optimum way to play them and got read by a lot of ppl which resulted in everyone playing them the same way
I think people overestimate their edge in these games. Sure you may be a way better player than the fish, that doesnt mean you can take variance completely out of the game
If you are rolled for the level, you should take every single +EV spot you can. TPGK against a random maniac=+EV.
Note, this only applies if you are properly rolled.
The thing that sets NL4 apart from everything else on this site, is you can't go any lower. It's the bottom of the barrel. If you lose buyins, you can't just drop down to rebuild- it is the bottom. Not everyone can afford to dump 20 buyins down to start up- a lot of people can only really put down £10/20 as their starting roll.
This CAN be built up at NL4 if you play super tight poker.
If you only have 2.5 buyins, then playing against maniacs is just not a safe way to build your roll. You're gambling. Maniacs are totally unpredictable, chuck chips in at will, and could have anything. This is not desirable with a small roll. Yes, when you have TPGK you're ahead of his range- that's not enough. He could have straight draw, a flush draw, a similar pair to give him plenty of live outs, or he could have a set/2 pair/overpair/better kicker to be dominating you. You have no idea what you're up against, and this is bad news for your short bankroll.
Set against this is the sheer army of NL4 standard fish, who play a similar way- limp/call preflop, check/fold with absolutely nothing, check/call with any pair any draw, raise huge with the nuts. That is simple as anything to play against- yes, you can get outdrawn, but they tend to announce with neon lights that they just spiked their gutshot. If you get all your money in before they raise, you're ahead 90% of the time. If they do suck out on you, well- you can't escape variance completely, as you said. But you can sure try to minimise it.
If you do get caught against a maniac, make sure you have a real strong hand. If you're going to go allin, it should be with a bare minimum of 2 pair, assuming you're on a short roll. If you're rolled, all these caveats don't apply- just take your +EV spots and enjoy.
None of this super cagey approach is applicable to the higher limits- because if you're playing this way, you should be dropping down. It's just you can't do that here, and you need to start somewhere.
This is a cracking thread and all NL4 players should read it and take note.
Thread should be stickied at the top of page.
Thanks Dohhhhh
xx
Links here:
Beating Small Stakes Cash Games - Part 1
Beating Small Stakes Cash Games - Part 2
Beating Small Stakes Cash Games - Part 3
Also, to the other people who mentioned it, I wouldn't worry about this helping everyone to get good and 4NL becoming tough, because most of these fish are just playing for a bit of a gamble and never venture anywhere near the forum and never intend to improve their game. These are the people who say it's all luck anyway, so how could you improve your game??