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Carlo Citrone right or wrong in this situation?
jenny_IYY
Member Posts: 184
Hi guys.
This is a hand that was shown on mastercash last night and it has bugged me all night long after hearing Carlos comments saying that im losing value by folding in this spot in the long run.
If it had been a tourny i would be jamming here everytime but in a cash game i think the play is to fold here.
I respect Carlos views and know without doubt he is a very good player but as we all know "nobody is right all the time" and the more i thought about the hand my thinking is that i am saving cash in this situaton in the long run and not losing it.
Just wanted to throw it over to the players on here to find out their views on the hand and to get a majority rule.
TYIA Jenny.
Hand History #383513021 (22:50 18/06/2011)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceOzzie08Small blind £0.15£0.15£67.92muhammedBig blind £0.30£0.45£40.78 Your hole cardsQQ jenny_IYYRaise £0.90£1.35£161.57corbett04Fold avemariaCall £0.90£2.25£66.04LnarinOOFold Ozzie08Fold muhammedFold Flop 472 jenny_IYYBet £2.25£4.50£159.32avemariaRaise £5.20£9.70£60.84jenny_IYYRaise £8.70£18.40£150.62avemariaRaise £30.00£48.40£30.84jenny_IYYFold avemariaMuck avemariaWin £22.94 £53.78avemariaReturn £24.25£1.21£78.03
This is a hand that was shown on mastercash last night and it has bugged me all night long after hearing Carlos comments saying that im losing value by folding in this spot in the long run.
If it had been a tourny i would be jamming here everytime but in a cash game i think the play is to fold here.
I respect Carlos views and know without doubt he is a very good player but as we all know "nobody is right all the time" and the more i thought about the hand my thinking is that i am saving cash in this situaton in the long run and not losing it.
Just wanted to throw it over to the players on here to find out their views on the hand and to get a majority rule.
TYIA Jenny.
Hand History #383513021 (22:50 18/06/2011)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceOzzie08Small blind £0.15£0.15£67.92muhammedBig blind £0.30£0.45£40.78 Your hole cardsQQ jenny_IYYRaise £0.90£1.35£161.57corbett04Fold avemariaCall £0.90£2.25£66.04LnarinOOFold Ozzie08Fold muhammedFold Flop 472 jenny_IYYBet £2.25£4.50£159.32avemariaRaise £5.20£9.70£60.84jenny_IYYRaise £8.70£18.40£150.62avemariaRaise £30.00£48.40£30.84jenny_IYYFold avemariaMuck avemariaWin £22.94 £53.78avemariaReturn £24.25£1.21£78.03
Comments
My orig post didnt show stack sizes which were Jenny £161.57 and avemaria £66.04
So are you saying fold in this situation don or jam it in ?
Regardless, i think it is a fold readless because its very unusual for a 4 bet on the flop to be worse than your hand, unless the villain is overvaluing a hand or is a complete idiot.
Good luck on the tables.
To then raise again means you want to get it in so to fold after 3betting on flop is pretty bad as you're raising for information and that should NEVER happen.
Most of the time QQ is beating very little after these betting patterns and the times it is beating your opponant should mean he is by far a worse player than you 99% of the time and he will be doing his cash in later hands anyways.
Fold and wait for better spot SIMPLZZZZZ
The 3 bet does not mean we must stack off imo. The villain may or may not know what a 3 bet normally means! we are readless i believe.
I would prob flat rather than 3 bet personally. But as played, i think it was the correct fold.
Raise folding 29 bb's doesn't feel right to me somehow.
I know that people say you should never 3 bet fold in spots like this. But maybe on this occasion we are deep enough to justify it.?
I imagine i will be told im wrong and that 3 bet folding here is evil.
Fold move on imo
fwiw heres what I wrote in the show thread
one of the biggest problems that people face in poker is folding overpairs to the board.
you made a great fold that given the action would be correct a large amount of the time.
don't be results orientated. espeically as the guy didn't outplay you. he overplayed his hand. the villain int eh hand with 78 on a 7 5 3 (I think) board made a bet that was never gonna get called by a worse hand.
if he had made the same bet with say K9 on a 753 then you can say that he outplayed you but on that kinda board with his hand, then in the long run he will be outplaying himself but totally unaware of it
If you soul read it for a set then hey wp
Most of the time he will be showing you 10's, J's or 2 overs and FD.
So you could say he would be more likey to show up with a hand your beating than a hand you not.
AA/KK very possible but action pre does not indicate this, AK spades more likely or scared mid pr.
Also gotta say when you bet the flop and he raises you and then you fire back, here you just can't fold.
Raising here for information is very bad imo, better off just to flat and see what comes on the turn.
If your always doing "raising for info" then players will pick up on this and make moves against you with air.
So he could have nothing
Also I don't think you raise is big enough when you fire back, he probably see this as weak and made a move
Imo flat the flop raise. I hate 3bet/fold because for it to be good we need to know he calls often with worse but only raises with better. This is not realistic against an unknown (or most players) so Im either flatting flop or raising with the intention of getting it in