These were my thoughts on it at the time and even more so now.
The options i had in my mind were
1. Fold to his raise on flop (which was never going to happen because he could have anything and be looking at my continuation bet as just a standard play.
2. Push all in or raise with the intentions of pushing to a reraise ( which was also never going to happen because in my opinion i had nowhere near enough info to be doing that with only 1 pair and it seems a MTT play in all honesty).
3. Flat call and take it from there depending on turn card which was possible but it also dosnt give me anymore info at that point as to how strong he is and i decided to not do this incase another scare card came on turn and i really wouldnt know where i was in the hand with only 1 pair facing poss flushs, straights, sets etc.
4.(Which is what i did) 3 bet his raise to see how strong he was at that point in time, because in my opinion most players with a draw or top pair/overpair etc will only call in that spot and only very strong hands would 4 bet me there most of the time as my hand now is screaming big pocket pair and in my mind only a very small % of players would be good enough to know they can push me off my hand or bad enough to think that anything less than what i was holding was good enough to be infront at that point.
I feel certain that my play is +ev long term and would love to hear Carlos thoughts again now he has had time to take another look at it and bearing in mind like scotty says above i cant see the other players cards.
Either way Carlo i still think your the man and a very good player and like i said earlier everyone has diferent ways of playing hands and i respect all your thoughts and comments
Anyways. ty for all of your replys and good luck to you all at the tables
So you raised for info and got the wrong information? and people still question why this strategy is bad! As the hand played out i think your fold is fine but thats only cos you played the flop so badly. Just flat the flop and make decisions on the turn and river. You make it seem like its so hard to play QQ on a 7 hi board.
So you raised for info and got the wrong information? and people still question why this strategy is bad! As the hand played out i think your fold is fine but thats only cos you played the flop so badly. Just flat the flop and make decisions on the turn and river. You make it seem like its so hard to play QQ on a 7 hi board. Posted by offshoot
Surely flatting flop is the weaker play and gives your oppo chance to hit draws etc ?
Playing it the way she did at least lets her find out if she is facing a made hand there and then instead of flatting and prob costing her more to find out on the turn because if a blank comes she is none the wiser at that point and if a draw hits there are even more hands to worry about.
The way it played out i think it was 1 in 100 that the oppo did what he did with a weaker hand and flatting flop seems so nitty to me although it is another way she could have played it.
In Response to Re: Carlo Citrone right or wrong in this situation? : Surely flatting flop is the weaker play and gives your oppo chance to hit draws etc ? Playing it the way she did at least lets her find out if she is facing a made hand Posted by rentisdue
Raise - folding QQ in this spot is a waste of a good hand.
If you are going to 3 bet fold these kind of spots, much better to do it with hands that have missed and have little or no equity.
(BTW, I don't think the fold is terrible, once you have 3b and they have 4b)
The thing about being 200BB's deep, is you have to be prepared to play 3 streets with marginal hands against opponents who like to mix it up.
It sucks that you are out of position, and it makes the spot more difficult, but it's a good board for you, and there are lots of hands the opponent can have, that we beat, and which we can get lots more value from.
Is calling the raise a weak play?
No.... but the biggest problem with flatting is, because you are OOP, if you check the turn the opponent can take a free card to improve / hit their draw.
Still not a disaster for you.... you then know they aren't that strong, and if a scare card comes on the river you can check call. (Or bet / fold).
You are not necessarily getting good value for your hand, but that's one of the hazards of playing out of position.
Comments
These were my thoughts on it at the time and even more so now.
The options i had in my mind were
1. Fold to his raise on flop (which was never going to happen because he could have anything and be looking at my continuation bet as just a standard play.
2. Push all in or raise with the intentions of pushing to a reraise ( which was also never going to happen because in my opinion i had nowhere near enough info to be doing that with only 1 pair and it seems a MTT play in all honesty).
3. Flat call and take it from there depending on turn card which was possible but it also dosnt give me anymore info at that point as to how strong he is and i decided to not do this incase another scare card came on turn and i really wouldnt know where i was in the hand with only 1 pair facing poss flushs, straights, sets etc.
4.(Which is what i did) 3 bet his raise to see how strong he was at that point in time, because in my opinion most players with a draw or top pair/overpair etc will only call in that spot and only very strong hands would 4 bet me there most of the time as my hand now is screaming big pocket pair and in my mind only a very small % of players would be good enough to know they can push me off my hand or bad enough to think that anything less than what i was holding was good enough to be infront at that point.
I feel certain that my play is +ev long term and would love to hear Carlos thoughts again now he has had time to take another look at it and bearing in mind like scotty says above i cant see the other players cards.
Either way Carlo i still think your the man and a very good player and like i said earlier everyone has diferent ways of playing hands and i respect all your thoughts and comments
Anyways. ty for all of your replys and good luck to you all at the tables
Jenny.
Surely flatting flop is the weaker play and gives your oppo chance to hit draws etc ?
Playing it the way she did at least lets her find out if she is facing a made hand there and then instead of flatting and prob costing her more to find out on the turn because if a blank comes she is none the wiser at that point and if a draw hits there are even more hands to worry about.
The way it played out i think it was 1 in 100 that the oppo did what he did with a weaker hand and flatting flop seems so nitty to me although it is another way she could have played it.