I think those ranges are spot on. First guy has 15bb, so too early to open shove with something like 22 or KJ (at least it would be for me), and there would be no reason to shove AA/KK/QQ, and second guy surely must have a strong hand, as even if he isolates he risks half his stack.
I think those ranges are spot on. First guy has 15bb, so too early to open shove with something like 22 or KJ (at least it would be for me), and there would be no reason to shove AA/KK/QQ, and second guy surely must have a strong hand, as even if he isolates he risks half his stack. Posted by Giant811
Would the difference between shoving 22 or 66 not be pretty marginal here? I have no idea of his range, maybe thats what he does , but they are going to play similarly against calling ranges. Also generally if I had been openshoving with around this stack depth I would do it with AA also
I think against alot of players or prob more importantly on alot of tables on sky you can mix it up and play differently according to the strength of your hand, and get away with it....
especially if you haven't been shoving alot, and also, when you're 14+xbb deep rather than around 10xbb...
If you have AA utg w/15xbb, and one of the 5 players behind you has AJ+, TJs+ or any pair, they WILL call to see a flop.
They will also fold most of that range to a shove....
They won't realise that you've open shoved 4 times in the last 15 hands, and now you're min raising....
And if they do, they will struggle to interpret it.
Also if they make top pair or a draw, they aren't folding, if they call pre with 99, and the flop is low, they aren't folding....We double up....
So I think you can min raise, or 2.5x for value and still shove as a steal (altho I wudnt be doing this v light UTG w/15xbb)
I suppose you get some tables on sky with good players, who you wont be able to do that against, but then you just adapt, maybe mix it up, or just play totally differently.
I think the initial raiser has enough experience on the site to recognise that open shoving utg with AA and 15xbb is prob not the best way to play it.
I am now totally confused with all the maths lolz but im inclined to call here as gettin a decent stack at this stage in a tourny is vital , if it was A Q i can find a fold no probs but A K i gotta play it yeah???
^^^^ I think against alot of players or prob more importantly on alot of tables on sky you can mix it up and play differently according to the strength of your hand, and get away with it.... especially if you haven't been shoving alot, and also, when you're 14+xbb deep rather than around 10xbb... If you have AA utg w/15xbb, and one of the 5 players behind you has AJ+, TJs+ or any pair, they WILL call to see a flop. They will also fold most of that range to a shove.... They won't realise that you've open shoved 4 times in the last 15 hands, and now you're min raising.... And if they do, they will struggle to interpret it. Also if they make top pair or a draw, they aren't folding, if they call pre with 99, and the flop is low, they aren't folding....We double up.... So I think you can min raise, or 2.5x for value and still shove as a steal (altho I wudnt be doing this v light UTG w/15xbb) I suppose you get some tables on sky with good players, who you wont be able to do that against, but then you just adapt, maybe mix it up, or just play totally differently. I think the initial raiser has enough experience on the site to recognise that open shoving utg with AA and 15xbb is prob not the best way to play it. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
I get what you are saying, and certainly if I hadnt been openshoving (I wouldnt always be shove or fold with 15BB)much I just open small here with monsters. If I have been shoving a lot though, I will still get called by stuff like AJ and 99 and worse tbh. The opposite also applies they sometimes flat 99 and high flop comes etc and I miss a lot of value. You are prob right though.
Just curious to the range you gave, I see very little reason why he shoves 66 and not 22 esp if he wont get called by Arag, it may be what he does though obv
In Response to Re: AK against 2 shoves, call or fold? : I love this explanation. Soooo much easier to think of it like that. So my instincts were right to snap call here, as I have been doing for years. Math really is idiotic !:):) Posted by DOHHHHHHH
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Just curious to the range you gave, I see very little reason why he shoves 66 and not 22 esp if he wont get called by Arag, it may be what he does though obv
as for the hand i'm not folding