out of interest how would you play JJ in the same spot? Posted by huuuuume
Cant speak for lambert obv BUT in my similar posted hand 10 10 and JJ imo are pretty much the same , MY mistake is i shoulda reraised pre and i may have got a reply that tells me to fold , but if its flatted by oppo i prob still lose my stack in the same way xx
im not familiar with 4nl at all but it sounds like decent players are just sitting waiting for massive hands knowing they will get called. you will have to adjust this as you move up the limits though as you will be looking to push smaller edges than just assuming people will stack easily to you
like you said the hand posted looks like a mistake. still think its hard to fold though with the info you have during the hand.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree Huuuuume, I'll definitely be changing things up at higher levels but at this level where there are so many limp/callers and people who will happily stack off with 2nd pair, then the best way is to wait for your premiums like AK, then if you hit the flop, bet between 75-100% of the pot on all streets.
Sometimes it can get a bit monotonous but it's a fairly easy way to build myself a BR where I can take shots at higher levels.
I dont like 3betting TT readless against an UTG open, esp at 4NL. I'm not familiar with ranges, but I would think they dont auto raise Arag, suited connectors or very small pairs, and they will prob fold these to 3bets, apart from maybe the pairs. If they 4bet it sucks, but I'm not sure we can really 3b/f a hand as strong as TT readless. Also if they flat postflop may well be awkward readless as well, even ip, doubt we can rule out bigger pairs. I agree if we flat pre though we shouldnt just be setmining.
Lambert, I really think you played the hand in a manner which minimised the value you could get from worse hands with the overbet leads, seems to me like you just valuetown yourself too often with this line and make worse hands fold lots
Yeah I totally agree with you grantorino. I've now been discussing and thinking about this hand for probably far logner than necessary and I have no arguements that it was played very badly. Took a while to reply because I'm 4tabling now but yeah, I've definitely taken all your comments on board and will definitely be playing these situations very differently in future. In fact an almost identical situation came up in this session when I flatted a raise pre with TT and there was no overcard to the board, played it your way this time.
at 4nl if he flats your reraise you have learnt he doesnt have JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AK. this is good information to have and will make playing your hand a lot easier i never play 4nl but surely people at this level are raising pre flop with some hands in the range of 22-99 and suited Ax type hands????? dont they raise with suited connectors? with the hand you have posted you seem to have undervalued your 10 10 pre flop then overvalued it post flop. Posted by huuuuume
That's the thing. Generally players limp in with their entire range. I've had KQ on the button, raised and hit a dry king high flop only to find that the cut-off had limp called with AK. Open raises are so rare that they are genearlly only made by regs that know what they are doing and it's best to avoid calling them unless you have a strong hand
Seems to me like you hanged yourself, not sure how often you will do this but, just from previous posts I've read from you, you haven't taken onboard bet sizing advice and are desperate to play for stacks far too often.
Overbetting that flop will scare off all hands that you are beating other then 9x type hands and general noobs that have no clue how to play. Overpairs to the board are not the nuts.
It may only be 4nl but you still need to think what hand range is going to call an overbet donk lead and the answer is generally always going to be a strong hand since the opponent will usually assume that another bet will happen.
Comments
im not familiar with 4nl at all but it sounds like decent players are just sitting waiting for massive hands knowing they will get called. you will have to adjust this as you move up the limits though as you will be looking to push smaller edges than just assuming people will stack easily to you
like you said the hand posted looks like a mistake. still think its hard to fold though with the info you have during the hand.
Sometimes it can get a bit monotonous but it's a fairly easy way to build myself a BR where I can take shots at higher levels.
I dont like 3betting TT readless against an UTG open, esp at 4NL. I'm not familiar with ranges, but I would think they dont auto raise Arag, suited connectors or very small pairs, and they will prob fold these to 3bets, apart from maybe the pairs. If they 4bet it sucks, but I'm not sure we can really 3b/f a hand as strong as TT readless. Also if they flat postflop may well be awkward readless as well, even ip, doubt we can rule out bigger pairs. I agree if we flat pre though we shouldnt just be setmining.
Lambert, I really think you played the hand in a manner which minimised the value you could get from worse hands with the overbet leads, seems to me like you just valuetown yourself too often with this line and make worse hands fold lots
Thanks for the feedback.
That's the thing. Generally players limp in with their entire range. I've had KQ on the button, raised and hit a dry king high flop only to find that the cut-off had limp called with AK. Open raises are so rare that they are genearlly only made by regs that know what they are doing and it's best to avoid calling them unless you have a strong hand
Overbetting that flop will scare off all hands that you are beating other then 9x type hands and general noobs that have no clue how to play. Overpairs to the board are not the nuts.
It may only be 4nl but you still need to think what hand range is going to call an overbet donk lead and the answer is generally always going to be a strong hand since the opponent will usually assume that another bet will happen.