100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.

DOHHHHHHH

Opponent posts in the clinic and it's clear that he knows what he's on about from his posts.

First time I've ever played him, and he hadn't been at the table very long.

From what I remember though, I'd opened loads of buttons, I think 4 of the last 5 buttons I'd opened, and he might have defended once or twice, but just given up on the flop, or something, no post flop history.

I just had a feeling that he'd got fed up of me opening in late position. He's obv very capable of playing back light, or I'd assume he is anyway. Is this a mistake to assume things, and anticipate things, rather than waiting to see for sure?

Post flop, I've improved from a bluff to top pair again.

Without any post flop reads, what line do you think is best?

Bet fold, bet call, or check?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
miekemur08	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£70.71
xxx	Big blind		£1.00	£1.50	£89.35
	Your hole cards	J 10
RemyMartin	Fold
varney	Fold
Sakugawa22	Fold
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£3.00	£4.50	£160.48
miekemur08	Call		£2.50	£7.00	£68.21
xxx	Raise		£11.00	£18.00	£78.35
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£20.00	£38.00	£140.48
miekemur08	Fold
xxx	Call		£11.00	£49.00	£67.35
Flop
		9 10 9
xxx	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£17.00	£66.00	£123.48
xxx	All-in		£67.35	£133.35	£0.00
DOHHHHHHH	Call		£50.35	£183.70	£73.13
xxx	Show
DOHHHHHHH	Show	J 10

pod1

if this was nl4-30 you know what the posts would be commin at you!!! i like your pre flop play to be fair. not sure if i like post. can i ask why c bet is so small,was it to induce re raise? had you made your mind up to put it allin after seeing flop? why not jam? why not bail after his all in?  so many questions lol. could you run through thought process of post flop play please in other words mate!

WHOAMI196

4 bet bluff gotta love it lol, you say he a forum poster and poss a  good playerbut tbh i dont rate players who dont top up(suppose thats nothing)

I like ur cbet but only if it was intentional, and if you knew where you were in the hand, i mean it allows your oppo bluff since he has fold eq against you, so its best to bet bigger if you gonna fold to a shove. So great play imo if you got him beat here, but tbh id bet flop bigger withought reads or even check behind because if i 4 bet him with 10j and got called id be looking for 2pairs(not inc paired boards),draws, etc.

DOHHHHHHH

My line post flop is something I've learnt from the clinic.

Last few times I'd got myself in this kinda situation (some would say mess, lol) - I've been criticised for betting too big.

I've flopped top pair in a 4b pot v an 90xbb stack, so I don't think I'm ever folding. I bet really small to induce the shove, if he has air and I bet big he just check folds. If he has me beat, he just crai.

So although his range is still supposed to be in good shape v me even after I flop top pair, at least it includes some bluffs after I bet small. Although again to assume this without a read is probably bad?

I was hovering over the call button just waiting for the jam, and snappvd within 0.021 seconds.

But maybe checking behind the flop was better, I dunno.

pod1

i dont think i would have called allin, folded with my tailbetween my legs lol

debdobs_67

Interesting hand dohhh , what do you put villian on pre flop ??

IF he had QQ would he not have jammed on ya pre ??

Wouldnt surprise me if he had AK maybe ?? is A 10 a poss ??

I think you have played the hand well and i hope ya got ure reward

WHOAMI196

i think if you bet for a valid reason i dont think you should be criticised,

but here i lean more towards checking back but if i was gonna bet i would make it 24-25 aim to take it down on the flop and fold to a shove(kinda sucks and tbh on a paired board i dont think i would do this).

imo you dont want worse/air to call or bluff you because villains "Air" here would be AKcombos and not much else, villain may think 88< may be good here and shoving them but unlikely.  also villain could play jj poss qq this way but im gona be result orientated here if you got him beat, its great ballsy play wp lol  

yb

check back flop w/o better reads imo, when regs flat 4bets 90bbs deep they normally have these sort of boards crushed.

if you want to take this line your sizings are good though.

LOL_RAISE

stop 4betting with terrible hands to 4bet with

leon621

im curious now, has he got AA

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

im curious now, has he got AA
Posted by leon621

I gurantee they dont have AA

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

stop 4betting with terrible hands to 4bet with
Posted by LOL_RAISE

Blimey if I'm bluffing, surely my cards don't matter?

Of all the hands I could do it with, I'd have thought TJ isn't too bad?????

What shud I be doing it with? Or shud I stop doing it altogether!!!

leon621

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position. : I gurantee they dont have AA
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

i know but im just expecting something bizarre K9 suited or AA for some crazy reason, obviously these hardly ever happen but im still waiting for it lol

yb

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position. : Blimey if I'm bluffing, surely my cards don't matter? Of all the hands I could do it with, I'd have thought TJ isn't too bad????? What shud I be doing it with? Or shud I stop doing it altogether!!!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

with better blockers than a ten and a jack

Dudeskin8

These sort of hands scare me lol

pod1

lol dude,i agree. its definatly a big jump nl50/100 to anything else.  i see people worry about going from 4-8 and 10-20 etc but i think nl100 is where it starts getting fun!!

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

lol dude,i agree. its definatly a big jump nl50/100 to anything else.  i see people worry about going from 4-8 and 10-20 etc but i think nl100 is where it starts getting fun!!
Posted by pod1

I've completely skipped 50nl.

Playing over-rolled at 30nl for like 75 years means I'm easily rolled for 100nl, and it just seems so much easier than 50nl. 

But that sounds as stupid as someone who says 20nl is easier than 4nl.

Oppo had K3 of spades in this hand. Brag/advertising/etc, it seems there isn't much clinic discussion of hands 50nl and above really, which is kinda understandable.

But thanx to everyone who replied.

pod1

i understand what you mean jj, i find nl30 (with the right table selection) easier and much more profitable than 10/20 which can be manic at the best of times. nice call mate, as you can tell i aint ready for that type of play yet!

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

i understand what you mean jj, i find nl30 (with the right table selection) easier and much more profitable than 10/20 which can be manic at the best of times. nice call mate, as you can tell i aint ready for that type of play yet!
Posted by pod1

Aint it weird how diff players find levels lower TOUGHER than levels higher , ive just started playin nl20 and im findin it better so far than nl10 , strange )

grantorino

you really choose strange hands to 3 and 4bet bluff

I'd prob 4bet a little bigger, although him being short makes it awkward

Postflop idk, I prob check back with your limited reads but if you are betting I like your sizing and snap the shove

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: 100nl, tp after 4b bluff in position.:

you really choose strange hands to 3 and 4bet bluff I'd prob 4bet a little bigger, although him being short makes it awkward Postflop idk, I prob check back with your limited reads but if you are betting I like your sizing and snap the shove
Posted by grantorino

This is because I pick the time to do it, rather than the hand to do it with...

I thought that would be more important?

I'll have to read up on what to bluff with pre. Or just stop doing it.

I have something in my head that says suited King rag hands are good hands to do it with? But thats like 1 blocker, and surely doesn't make too much difference?