ok this is getting rediculous now, theres no way i would expect somebody to write a list of cards i can raise with etc etc, but why start getting all mardy with me cus i raise with QJ?
firstly i keep getting the same responces, Tighten up your game, so i tighten up my game, and its still not tight enough, i get told, oh you dont raise enough, and now im raising enough you still moan at me for raising with the wrong cards, how is anybody supposed to learn when people are more then willing to criticize but not comment on the fact that after i hit i offered him 2:4 odds, and he called with 2:5 pot odds, his call was the unprofitable one, i put him all in whilst i was ahead, whilst i believed i was ahead, and i was correct, his bad play cost me, and yet the only thing people can comment on is my whole cards, ok so what do i learn from this experience,
i learn that on NL4 even trashy raises have meaning in them
i also learn that people are willing to call with a gutshot and will get lucky
i also learn that when people tell you that the closer to the button you are the wider you can open your raise range with are liars, cus if you do that you get criticized
Maybe another lesson is fold when your ahead if the opposition is stupid enough to 3 bet you
Whether your opponent made a bad call or not is not the important thing in this hand. You cant change how badly people play their hands or how the cards fall, you can only change your own play. If your not willing to look at your own play and take criticism then you wont improve. If you just want us to say 'wp so unlucky!' then post in BBV and not the clinic.
I hear what your saying sillymunch but JQ is a massively MASSIVELY overplayed hand. 3 betting here is not great, mainly due to the type of hands that are going to 4 bet or station you. We have no real advantage postflop, infact we likely have a huge disadvantage vs a callers range
It would genuinely be better to 3 bet 89 suited here.
We shouldnt really be playing our hand here, but opponents.
I'd imagine everyones input is in the nature of constructive criticism, rather than trying to frustrate you. There really are some great poker minds in this forum. We all learn from each other in different ways.
But to 3bet JQ here we need to believe opener leads with worse and calls with worse, also that our 3betting range gives us an advantage over their flatting range. Which, frankly, is going to be hugely low %/
the only person that ever frustrates me is YG, and its not cus of what he says but the way he says it, basically as if i should already know this stuff, i will also add, i originally thought i had opened the pot from my position, and everyone had limped in, it was only afterwards when playing back the hand i realised vilain had min raised it, now if i was opening an unraised pot with QJ is that still wrong? see i have no idea, and the criticism as much as they are trying to drill it into me, I DO NOT KNOW whether or not i can open raise with this hand, if it hadnt been raised before me, would it of been the right move, again i aint got a clue, that was the reason for the original post only showing the first portion of the hand, cus i wanted the feedback, once i revealed the whole hand, everyone was more focused on what i had played in the first hand then discussing everyone said i should of folded to the raise over the top of my raise, but as you can see he did that with a speculative hand? its not like this player is an unknown to me either, so its not like i was worried when i made the raise all in, ok the guy had 10 outs :S big deal i had a made hand, if you know somebody is like this its different then a unknown is it not?
Firstly, credit to you for your transparency and honesty. Most people try to talk a good sell. Its great to hear someone just putting themselves out there.
In regards to the opponent being a known entity: its great to have the info here, but we still want to go to this party with a bigger gun if you catch my drift. There are so many hands that we are behind, and so many our hand plays badly against. It doesnt matter how fishy or aggro opponent is. Being aggro and fishy with an overall gameplan isnt such a bad thing either, because - if you forgive me -, it confuses players forcing them to overplay hands like we see here. Much better to pick off value in this pot post flop if opponent is this bad. Plus we are going to get an avalanche of opportunities throughout the session. It doesnt have to be here.
In regard to YG, he's actually a pretty good guy from what I have seen. Written word is easy to misinterpret.
Sorry but please explain to me if I'm wrong but I don't see any cold 4-betting here, or rather any 4-betting at all?? Pre - Sparky bets, Silly re-raises (2bets if you will), and Sparky 3bets (no 4bet there). Even if you class Sparky's inital bet as a raise (because it's more than a blind), then Silly's is a 3bet (Arguably) and then Sparky's would be a 4bet but it's not a cold 4-bet. A cold 4-bet is when you 4bet someone when it's your first action into the pot, correct? Post flop - Silly bets, Sparky re-raises, Silly 3bet-shoves and Sparky calls. Where are these 4bets? Please correct me if I'm wrong... P.S. Sorry if I'm just being a picky barsteward Posted by Lambert180
Yeah, you got me! I misread it. Its not a COLD 4-bet but it is a 4-bet!
As for the bold bit, yeah, you are!!!!! ;-)
Back to the hand, doesnt matter if its cold or on fire. Decision is the same. You never feel in good shape here!
Munchy, i do understand where you are coming from with your frustration. Just ask the stupid questions, its the only way you will learn. The people on this forum actually enjoy helping people so just extract as much as possible from them. I recently read 'Harrington on cash games' volume I and II and it explains some of the finer points of cash play as well as the basics. I am sure you can pick these up from e-bay or something fairly cheap. I recommend it as you seem to have the basic math and some understanding of the game. This may take you a tad further. Just a suggestion. I learnt loads from those two books. Also, you seem to struggle with hand selection and position and you rightly ask about these things. You need to get your head around it and it really does improve your game. Alot of it is experience, you have to learn from your mistakes. You sem to be going about it the right way. Just give it a bit of time and keep going. It wont happen overnight!
This is what i mean Silly i hope you was just having a bad day, do not in anyway take it personally! we are all posting to help you, Perhaps you havent read Dohhhh's guide properly or i recommend keep reading it because at nl4 the only way up is Super Tight/ Solid ABC, is there any point you posting if the minute you get a bit of critcism you then start explaining why you did this or that or get the hump with people telling you how you should play it. Again dont take offence personally but we are all trying to help your game GL
Whether your opponent made a bad call or not is not the important thing in this hand. You cant change how badly people play their hands or how the cards fall, you can only change your own play. If your not willing to look at your own play and take criticism then you wont improve. If you just want us to say 'wp so unlucky!' then post in BBV and not the clinic. Posted by offshoot
Oh my God.
Please, PLEASE, marry me, Offshoot.
I must get 10 Messages a day telling me how "the other guy played the hand so bad", (code for "I lost the hand") & I'm thinking, "what!?"......
Gonna QFT, once more, because it's so succinct......
".....Whether your opponent made a bad call or not is not the important thing in this hand. You cant change how badly people play their hands or how the cards fall, you can only change your own play....."
Sillymunch. I'm using a hand range from an older Dudeskin clinic post alongside DOHHHHHHH's nl4 tips. Open raise with any pocket pair, A10+, KJ+, QJs. 3 bet with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK. Call an opening raise with 2's to 10's, KQ, AJ. Hope this helps. Posted by harding10
Ahhhhh this is exactly the kind of thing i needed, i made my own little spreadsheet of hands i would call / raise in what position, and apparently it was too loose xP so i got confused how loose i was meant to be as i am prety sure i got my list from this site xD
This is what i mean Silly i hope you was just having a bad day, do not in anyway take it personally! we are all posting to help you, Perhaps you havent read Dohhhh's guide properly or i recommend keep reading it because at nl4 the only way up is Super Tight/ Solid ABC, is there any point you posting if the minute you get a bit of critcism you then start explaining why you did this or that or get the hump with people telling you how you should play it. Again dont take offence personally but we are all trying to help your game GL Posted by YOUNG_GUN
Yes... i was having a bad day, a very bad one ;o people had been making bad calls all day to me and having it paid off, think i took my 29 pound bankroll all the way down to 11 >< or near enough,
as for explaining my reasoning, im autistic, of course im gonna say why i did something that way people can understand where im coming from and tell me where my logic is flawed (logic is what my autism is all about everything has to be logical to me, also why sometimes the way you say things just stress me out more, i have no objection you helping me with criticism, i like criticism if i didnt get it i wouldnt be able to improve, i just need the criticism to be less blunt and more explanational, so that i can understand it and put it into my game instead of me just reading dont play that like that xD
Hope you understand what im trying to say lol, cus honestly i have never taken offence from anyone im usually a really laid back kinda guy, lol
Ok Silly i will bare in mind for future my apologise was never personal i have always been the same to Don, i just say in a way i think that you will learn from it.
Anyways onwards and upwards IMO get grinding those DYM's and GL
Ok Silly i will bare in mind for future my apologise was never personal i have always been the same to Don, i just say in a way i think that you will learn from it. Anyways onwards and upwards IMO get grinding those DYM's and GL Posted by YOUNG_GUN
thank you BR is now up to £56 xD but i kinda cheated for a boost of BR ;o by putting a bet on ipswitch to beat cov ;o
lol nice one always a bonus i never put bets on as does the opposite for me Posted by YOUNG_GUN
Awwwww well i did my research xD
in the past most times Ipswitch beat cov, they usually both score, and ipswitch most of the time are the first to score, think it was something like 56 wins, 22 losses, and 25 draws, also i knew that cov had key players missing, or coming back from injury so they would of been out of practise, as a result i put the bet on ipswitch to win xP but if they drew i would of got my money back.
Comments
i.e. you've come into the pot cold.
also lol ur 3b QJ just fold pre ffs
It would genuinely be better to 3 bet 89 suited here.
We shouldnt really be playing our hand here, but opponents.
I'd imagine everyones input is in the nature of constructive criticism, rather than trying to frustrate you. There really are some great poker minds in this forum. We all learn from each other in different ways.
But to 3bet JQ here we need to believe opener leads with worse and calls with worse, also that our 3betting range gives us an advantage over their flatting range. Which, frankly, is going to be hugely low %/
In regards to the opponent being a known entity: its great to have the info here, but we still want to go to this party with a bigger gun if you catch my drift. There are so many hands that we are behind, and so many our hand plays badly against. It doesnt matter how fishy or aggro opponent is. Being aggro and fishy with an overall gameplan isnt such a bad thing either, because - if you forgive me -, it confuses players forcing them to overplay hands like we see here. Much better to pick off value in this pot post flop if opponent is this bad. Plus we are going to get an avalanche of opportunities throughout the session. It doesnt have to be here.
In regard to YG, he's actually a pretty good guy from what I have seen. Written word is easy to misinterpret.
I'm using a hand range from an older Dudeskin clinic post alongside DOHHHHHHH's nl4 tips.
Open raise with any pocket pair, A10+, KJ+, QJs.
3 bet with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK.
Call an opening raise with 2's to 10's, KQ, AJ.
Hope this helps.
Please, PLEASE, marry me, Offshoot.
I must get 10 Messages a day telling me how "the other guy played the hand so bad", (code for "I lost the hand") & I'm thinking, "what!?"......
Gonna QFT, once more, because it's so succinct......
".....Whether your opponent made a bad call or not is not the important thing in this hand. You cant change how badly people play their hands or how the cards fall, you can only change your own play....."
Anyways onwards and upwards IMO get grinding those DYM's and GL