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Call or Raise?

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2011
    now it feels like he got overpair

    shove but I don't think he is folding

    sigh fold, like what are you beating - does he bet his draws or combi draws this aggro

    he not happy with you calling, he probably finsk you have a draw )
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited September 2011
    Certainly not a serial raiser, mainly limp/limp behind/call raises. On draws, not a clue unfortunately.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise?:
    Certainly not a serial raiser, mainly limp/limp behind/call raises. On draws, not a clue unfortunately.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    I prob fold so.
  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited September 2011
    lol respect you options!!! calling here has caused a bigger problem than raising the flop would have. If your gonna chose a certain line allways have a plan ........


  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise?:
    lol respect you options!!! calling here has caused a bigger problem than raising the flop would have. If your gonna chose a certain line allways have a plan ........
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    I agree he should have a plan. How does calling cause a bigger problem than raising? I dont think it does, and even if it is the case it doesnt mean raising is better
  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited September 2011
    still think im right lol

  • debdobs_67debdobs_67 Member Posts: 3,615
    edited September 2011
    I think ya can still flat again OR put a raise in to try to take the pot , but its gettin difficult now innit ?
  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise?:
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise? : I agree he should have a plan. How does calling cause a bigger problem than raising? I dont think it does, and even if it is the case it doesnt mean raising is better
    Posted by grantorino
    You can raise, just for value though, not to find out where you are Personally I think raising is too thin v the range that continues. Imo if you raise it has to be with  the intention of getting it in without excellent reads that he flats worse Pod, if you take down the pot with a mediocre hand here, you made the worse hand fold (usually a 6 outer) which is not good.If he calls (and I wouldnt expect a call often) I wouldnt really know where I stood, and pot is big. Prob ahead and have to get it in but who knows and there arent many good cards for us If he raises we are not sure where we are. His range beats us, but it might include a lot of hands we flip with and we  have 6 outs v overpairs. If we raise fold here we are turning a hand with good equity against villains range into a bluff  

    all of this you said and you are going to fold the turn lol


  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited September 2011

    The key thing here is our read on the villain. If they are generally passive/tight then i play it the same way as GT. Flat flop, fold turn.

    If the Villain is a loose idiot, then im raising the flop for value and certianly continuing on this turn card!

    I notice that you didnt give the third option "to fold" So i assume you just flatted the turn dude?

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise?:
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise? : You can raise, just for value though, not to find out where you are Personally I think raising is too thin v the range that continues. Imo if you raise it has to be with  the intention of getting it in without excellent reads that he flats worse Pod, if you take down the pot with a mediocre hand here, you made the worse hand fold (usually a 6 outer) which is not good.If he calls (and I wouldnt expect a call often) I wouldnt really know where I stood, and pot is big. Prob ahead and have to get it in but who knows and there arent many good cards for us If he raises we are not sure where we are. His range beats us, but it might include a lot of hands we flip with and we  have 6 outs v overpairs. If we raise fold here we are turning a hand with good equity against villains range into a bluff   all of this you said and you are going to fold the turn lol
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Thanks for pasting my post and typing lol at the end

    Feel free to critisize the call flop/fold blank turn line, I am aware of the weaknesses there and call/call may be better

    Our line here depends on villain. This villain seems passive and has raised pre and fired two streets. I dont really want to call turn, if I do Im calling most rivers, but calling a guy like this down with a medium pair is going to be pretty marginal.

    Now are you going to explain what problems raising flop avoids and why it is better than calling, or just lol at my line. Also how do you intend to continue after raising flop?
  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited September 2011
    i re-raise flop to prtoct our hand against fd/ overcards
  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise?:
    i re-raise flop to prtoct our hand against fd/ overcards
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    are you talking about the flop YG?

    from the info dude has given (multitabler etc) hes unliikely to call our raise with overcards and he is only likely to continue if he has an OP or some sort of draw. (we dont know if villain double barrels draws) I dont see the point in raising the flop against this villian there is little value in it.
  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited September 2011
    i must be right, even yg is agreeing with me lol
  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited September 2011

    his bet sizing could be a decent way to read the strength of his hand here i would say you facing a big bet on river regardless of his hand. Personally i thing your either way ahead p against AK AQ or miles behind and he has 777 lol

  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited September 2011
    raising this flop w/o a lot of history is just really really bad imo
  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited September 2011
    FWIW, i flat flop, probably give up on turn. He could easily have a hand that beats us here according to your reads. He is initial raiser pre flop when he is usually a limp/caller, gives me a huge clue about the strength of his hand. He bets half pot on the flop, which i am always calling to see if i can float the turn but then he bets 3/4ish pot now he has a customer on the turn. Its conceivable he has a bigger overpair.

    Dont think he has a set as he would have limped with any hand that made a set on this board pre flop (again, according to the reads you have given).

    There have to be better spots than this to stack off with as he is shoving river imo.
  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Call or Raise?:
    raising this flop w/o a lot of history is just really really bad imo
    Posted by yb
    Why is it bad?

    I dis-agree mainly because your not going to like alot of turns/rivers and your not finding anything about your opponent by flatting. Also IMO you are giving them a chance to catch up, i agree we are either crushed or well ahead at the mo so raise to find out information. if we call and then call the safe turn what are you doing if they make a good bet on the rover if an ace hits? if its blank are you still calling any river and so on.

    I dont think there are many turns and rivers which can make us confident we're ahead but thats just my 2 pennies worth
  • sikassikas Member Posts: 857
    edited September 2011
    i would prob raise this flop....i see the argument that u get worse hands to fold, only better ones call etc... yada yada yada...


    as young_gun there arent many turn/rivers were gonna like, he could barrel any broadway, any diamond (pickup backdoor f.draw)...he could barrel anything thinking were calling light...ALSO

    i think this concept may apply here...

    say opponent has exactly AK

    flop is 7d-4s-5d

    we hold 88

    the pot is £1

    villain still has 25% equity in this pot...which means on this flop he is entitled to 25 pence...now if we get him to fold...thats 25p gained

  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited September 2011
    GOD I HATE IT WHEN IM RIGHT!!!! LOL
  • angie6108angie6108 Member Posts: 225
    edited September 2011
    i would raise here because theres more likely an over card going to come on the turn so if u raise u get all ace highs to fold and if u get reraised i would say he got high pocket pair aces kings queens etc but i would raise here calling is ok but if an over card comes on the turn what would u do then ? 
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