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is a win a win?? or is it important how you win
margatemaf
Member Posts: 849
does it matter how you win? or do you have to look pretty doing it?
here's the secnario -
in a double your money tournament - 4 players left - one with 247 chips and blinds are at 300/600
i get AA in the hole, the gent goes all in as he has no choice, next bloke folded, next bloke called and i called ..... flop comes down i hit trip A so i raise it up again as there is a side pot now, i am pretty sure i am in front. The gent before me calls, turn comes down i hit a full house so i bet again, the gent before me folds i win the pot, the guy all in goes out 
but thats the game. Then the gent that folded starts giving me abuse in the chat box saying it was a terrible win and the bet was pointless with no gain to it ..... Can someone help me out with what he meant cause he seemed well annoyed with what i did and i cannot see what i did wrong to wind him up so much!!!
but thats the game. Then the gent that folded starts giving me abuse in the chat box saying it was a terrible win and the bet was pointless with no gain to it ..... Can someone help me out with what he meant cause he seemed well annoyed with what i did and i cannot see what i did wrong to wind him up so much!!!End result was i knocked him out with an all in call and he was still going on tellng me to enjoy my £2 - he won £2 too what was his problem did i really do anything wrong?? if i have not followed some sort etiquette can someone let me know please
Comments
i think you will find all your answers in the above topic.
Hopefully you will see the logic of this in this scenario
Hi Marga,
Basically, in that situation (dym bubble with the short stack all in), your only objective is to knock the shortie out and cash.
Your best chance of doing that is by not betting and just checking down until the showdown with the other players in the pot because that way you have given yourself an extra player's hand the chance to knock out the shortie. By betting, you have actually reduced your chance of winning.
E.g. yes you hit trips on the flop, but what if the shortie hit a flush draw and the other player hit two pair? So by betting, you make the other player fold. The shortie then makes his flush on the turn and you lose the pot. However, if you didn't bet, the other player would have stayed in the pot and made his house on the river, thus knocking the shortie out.
I know the above didn't actually happen, I was just using it as an example of what might happen and why by betting you are risking taking one or more other players out of the pot and thereby losing their hands to help knock the shortie out.
I'll give you an actual example which happened to me a couple of days back.
We were also four handed in a dym and the shortie went all in on the button, I was holding aj suited so thought yes I'm definitely going to call, I hope the small blind calls aswell so we can then check it down and have an extra chance with his hand to knock the shortie out. (note - I only THOUGHT this - you must NEVER actually type this in the chatbox otherwise it is blatant cheating known as collusion).
However, the small blind went all in and he had roughly the same amount of chips as me. So if I then called his all-in over the top of the shortie I was putting my own life at risk so couldn't call. And because he did go over the top of the shortie, I assumed he must have a monster like aa, kk or at least qq or ak.
As it turned out he only had a10, the shortie had aj off suit and won the pot and stayed in. However, if the small blind had just called and let me into the pot and then checked it down as he should have done, i would have made my flush on the river and knocked the shortie out.
I hope this has cleared up why it was wrong to bet in your situation, however I would like to add that it does not condone any abuse by the other player who should have politely pointed it out to you and moved on which is what I did with the player on my table. He then realised his mistake, apologised, we laughed it off and carried on, which is how it should be.
I just read Talon's post, he's got it spot on.
1st, no need to apologise to the other player if he was not polite to you, which from what you originally posted, it does not seem, so just ignore him, no excuse for ranting, raving, shouting or being abusive.
And to answer your question, if you feel you have the best hand post flop and the OTHER guy bets out, then it's probably best just to go all-in. (if you don't think you have the best hand, then you have to put him on a monster and fold, do not fritter your chips away by calling, you will lose in the long run).
Well, what has the player raised with?, what is your chipstack against the person who bet?, how big is the bet? does the flop look dangerous?, do you have the odds? and what has that player played like before this hand? for instance if they have gone pass, pass, pass etc the chances are they have the hand but these are all the questions you need to ask yourself
Cool, no worries Marga, glad I could be of some help, all the best in your future play. 8- />
I'll put this simply for everyone. this is not a team game, you can do what you like.
You bet when you had a set and you bet when you had a full house, THAT IS YOUR PEROGATIVE. Don't let anyone tell you anything different.
All this rubbish about maximising the chances of taking the short stack out, only comes into play if you dont hit your monster hand, but you bet with a hand that would have probably beaten the other guy. IMO the other guy was being a complete knob in having a go at you. I have thanked players for knocking the bubble out in the past, all you did was ensure the other 2 players left the £2.
col
Hi Mr Mbro,
I do think you are contradicting yourself here.
You are 100% correct in stating that it is his prerogative to bet into a dry side pot on the bubble of a dym with the shortie all-in.
However, if your justification for such an action is that it is not a team game and you are only playing for yourself, then your logic is flawed.
It is precisely BECAUSE it is not a team game that you shouldn't be betting.
Your sole objective, as you say, is looking after numero uno and making sure you cash, correct? Therefore, by betting, you are risking losing the services of one or more other players in the pot in knocking out the shortie, thus REDUCING your chances of making the money.
This is one of the fundamental differences in dynamics between a dym and "normal" tournie where it makes a difference if you finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
If you look, i actually say that after he had hit his full house, thereby reducing the chances of being beaten to only straight flush and quads, rare.
In a DYM that would be the ONLY time i would bet out in such a situation.
My statement was aimed at the player who then gave him grief for doing it. I fully understand the strategies required for DYMs, but in this instance they did nothing wrong. However if he had done the same with just top pair or a bluff i would agree that would not be the optimal play.
col
However, I also understand Jingle's frustratiuons at the guy who also went all in with a very moderate hand. that type of betting is just ridiculous.
Col it certinainly is not a team game and no one can use the chat boxes to state 'check it down' etc
However, the unspoken rule of poker is to never bet into a dry side pot when someone is allin. Same rule applies here in order to achieve the objective of a DYM - cashing!!!