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MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player.

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
edited October 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Not too farmiliar with the villain, but I gather they are tight, hence the flat of the UTG open.

No idea how often they c-bet, so again, just a call.

I'm hoping they slow down the turn, but the 2nd shell comes....

What do I do here?

The tourny is a sat, but there are only 2 seats in a 40-odd runner field, this is still the early stages.

Thoughts?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Moon_River Small blind  25.00 25.00 3535.00
Bear_Proof Big blind  50.00 75.00 2865.00
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
     
yidette9 Raise  150.00 225.00 2585.00
HITMAN_RV Fold     
DOHHHHHHH Call  150.00 375.00 2975.00
Ludovician Fold     
Moon_River Fold     
Bear_Proof Fold     
Flop
   
  • 6
  • 9
  • 10
     
yidette9 Bet  187.50 562.50 2397.50
DOHHHHHHH Call  187.50 750.00 2787.50
Turn
   
  • 9
     
yidette9 Bet  375.00 1125.00 2022.50
DOHHHHHHH
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited October 2011
    call, call most rivers
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011
    fold she has aces
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  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited October 2011

    Against THIS player I'm giving up!  Most likely A9? I'll ask her to pop in and let us know!

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    imagine your beat pre or she has a draw
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  • yidette9yidette9 Member Posts: 703
    edited October 2011
    Small blind  25.00 25.00 3535.00
    Bear_Proof Big blind  50.00 75.00 2865.00
     Your hole cards
    • K
    • 10
    		   
    yidette9 Raise  150.00 225.00 2585.00
    HITMAN_RV Fold     
    DOHHHHHHH Call  150.00 375.00 2975.00
    Ludovician Fold     
    Moon_River Fold     
    Bear_Proof Fold     
    Flop
      
    • 6
    • 9
    • 10
    		   
    yidette9 Bet  187.50 562.50 2397.50
    DOHHHHHHH Call  187.50 750.00 2787.50
    Turn
      
    • 9
    		   
    yidette9 Bet  375.00 1125.00 2022.50
    DOHHHHHHH Fold     
    yidette9 Muck     
    yidette9 Win  750.00  2772.50
    yidette9 Return  375.00 0.00 3147.50
    JJ I am so sorry, no as you can see I didnt have aces as Greg thought, I just thought my hand was good

    Honestly I did.

    Edit Omg Ive never been called a "villain" before! Does that mean I am finally bringing some aggression into my poker instead of being such a big wuss all the time?

    Apologies once again, your hand was better than mine

    All the best

    Lorraine
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited October 2011
    nh. lol. 


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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011
    lorraine! welcome to the clinic!

    my aces comment was tounge in cheek, i just love it when dohhhhhh gets a decision wrong :)

    Wp,

    btw, if dohhhhhhh shoves the turn would u

    a) snap call
    b) tank call
    or c) fold
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  • yidette9yidette9 Member Posts: 703
    edited October 2011
    hi Greg,

    thanks for the welcome to the clinic, I didn't even know this place existed! 

    Cant answer your question until you explain what a "tank call" is .... sorry

    Please excuse my ignorance
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  • yidette9yidette9 Member Posts: 703
    edited October 2011

    JJ, have you seen the edit to my earlier post?

    your thoughts on my question in the edit would be gratefully received. Good or bad, I can take criticism

    thank you

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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player.:
    hi Greg, thanks for the welcome to the clinic, I didn't even know this place existed!  Cant answer your question until you explain what a "tank call" is .... sorry Please excuse my ignorance
    Posted by yidette9
    my definiton of a "tank call" is where you take most of the time bank to think through the hand before eventually deciding to call.
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  • yidette9yidette9 Member Posts: 703
    edited October 2011
    yes I would've used all of my time up to think about it but would have still made the call. 

    I would never have put Dohhhhhhh on a hand as strong as jacks as he just flat called me pre and post flop.

    I really thought my hand was good 10's, 9's with a king


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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited October 2011
    dont ever apolagise for taking dohhhs chips, its one of the best feelings in life
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  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited October 2011
    That table is a horrible table to be sat at early in a sat!!!

    Your hand is massivly under repped so i think you should of shoved turn if she is tight she isnt holding Ace 9 raising from utg i think only hands your likely to see here are AT AA KK QQ TT or any pp if you re raise pre AT is out the window. As you stated a very tight player the actual hand she had i wouldnt of put in her range lol.
    I believe that the size of the flop bet gave away the strength of hand as with qq kk aa a tight player would be betting closer to pot size on a drawing flop and against such an aggro player as urself.
    So only hand your losing to here is TT 66 or 99 and if thats what is turned over unlucky.
    Wish i could of commented b4 hand history was posted by villain. :(
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player.:
    dont ever apolagise for taking dohhhs chips, its one of the best feelings in life
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    +1 million
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  • Die_hardDie_hard Member Posts: 338
    edited October 2011
    Pmsl at the apology......
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player.:
    That table is a horrible table to be sat at early in a sat!!! Your hand is massivly under repped so i think you should of shoved turn if she is tight she isnt holding Ace 9 raising from utg i think only hands your likely to see here are AT AA KK QQ TT or any pp if you re raise pre AT is out the window. As you stated a very tight player the actual hand she had i wouldnt of put in her range lol. I believe that the size of the flop bet gave away the strength of hand as with qq kk aa a tight player would be betting closer to pot size on a drawing flop and against such an aggro player as urself. So only hand your losing to here is TT 66 or 99 and if thats what is turned over unlucky. Wish i could of commented b4 hand history was posted by villain. :(
    Posted by Batkin88
    While JJ may well be good, villain is not calling a turn shove with worse if she is tight
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player.:
    Small blind   25.00 25.00 3535.00 Bear_Proof Big blind   50.00 75.00 2865.00   Your hole cards K 10       yidette9 Raise   150.00 225.00 2585.00 HITMAN_RV Fold         DOHHHHHHH Call   150.00 375.00 2975.00 Ludovician Fold         Moon_River Fold         Bear_Proof Fold         Flop     6 9 10       yidette9 Bet   187.50 562.50 2397.50 DOHHHHHHH Call   187.50 750.00 2787.50 Turn     9       yidette9 Bet   375.00 1125.00 2022.50 DOHHHHHHH Fold         yidette9 Muck         yidette9 Win   750.00   2772.50 yidette9 Return   375.00 0.00 3147.50 JJ I am so sorry, no as you can see I didnt have aces as Greg thought, I just thought my hand was good Honestly I did. Edit Omg Ive never been called a "villain" before! Does that mean I am finally bringing some aggression into my poker instead of being such a big wuss all the time? Apologies once again, your hand was better than mine All the best Lorraine
    Posted by yidette9
    Lorraine, as dohhhhhh hasnt answered this, i will do it for him.

    The term "villain" is widely used in the poker clinic and accross all poker strategy forums as a general term for the opponant in the hand.

    It doesnt matter what style the villain plays or whether they won or lost the hand.

    The poster asking for advice is  always the HERO, and the opponant in question is the VILLAIN.

    As an aside, you are obviously becoming more agressive and playing better as most will be surprised that your range includes K10s utg, which "tight" players would normally snap fold preflop.

    Well played in this hand
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  • yidette9yidette9 Member Posts: 703
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player.:
    In Response to Re: MTT, o/pair facing 2nd barrell from tight player. : Lorraine, as dohhhhhh hasnt answered this, i will do it for him. The term "villain" is widely used in the poker clinic and accross all poker strategy forums as a general term for the opponant in the hand. It doesnt matter what style the villain plays or whether they won or lost the hand. The poster asking for advice is  always the HERO, and the opponant in question is the VILLAIN. As an aside, you are obviously becoming more agressive and playing better as most will be surprised that your range includes K10s utg, which "tight" players would normally snap fold preflop. Well played in this hand
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    thank you so much for your post Greg, I was beginning to get a complex about my play.

    your explanation of hero and villain explains a lot to me and makes complete sense so thanks for that too.

    I do consider myself to be a tight player ("nit")  maybe sometimes too tight! as budgirl often points out! I do fold to re-raises as I always put "the villain" on aces or kings and give respect which I would've done yesterday to a re-raise from JJ. 

    This is going to be a mountain for me to climb as I seem to get re-raised so often, I haven't found the courage yet to re-raise with anything less than QQ and during yesterdays satellite I found that I had made a couple of raises with AQ, AJ didn't hit the flop and was taken out of the pot by aggression from others on the table. I must have folded the best hand hundreds of times in many games cos of being scared of my opponents and deep down I know that its the wrong approach, I just don't know how to overcome it.

    I certainly wouldn't usually raise with K10 from under the gun which probably tells me that I was out of my depth with these quality players, I was just hoping to hit a flop which I did and on facing no aggression, I continued to believe my hand was good and played it as aggresively as I could.

    I have so much to learn, I know that! and I will continue to try my best in whichever game I play.

    I guess I can't do much more than that.

    oh by the way .....

    come on youuuuu
    spuuuuuuurs 

     
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited October 2011
    Hey Yidette, sorry about the delay, I was off-forum last night.

    Yeh as Greg has said, calling you a villain is nothing personal, lol. It's just the term for the opponent in the hand.

    I haven't played with you much, in fact I can't ever remember playing with you, but from what I gather, and with your success in the dym comp, I thought you were pretty rock solid/tight, and don't give your chips away easily.

    For that reason, I was sure you had an overpair, or pocket 10's, so took the cautious route as it was still quite early in the sat.

    See image and reputation is so important in poker, that's why I work so hard at creating mine ! ;)

    Well played in that hand, and ul with your AK exit hand, that other guy was bonkers. 

    Tanx for being a gud sport and posting the hand, and good luck trying to make the UKOPS!
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  • yidette9yidette9 Member Posts: 703
    edited October 2011
    thank you JJ Dohhhhhhh for replying,

    see, I am back to my usual "writing in red" Team Poker Trev self.
    This, in red, is how I usually write, just on my team thread! I do however apologise for my ignorance about this clinic and I would like to thank Glenelg for inviting me to drop in to share my views and confessions to you about my villain hand! btw I understand completely now the difference between hero and villain ......

    budgirl was out playing live poker last night when I got Glenelg's inbox and when he got home (without cashing, I might add!) hehe, I told him all about this and he said "omg, your reputation is in tatters!"

    But, you know what JJ ? I am going to try another UKOPS satellite, thanks to you :)))

    just maybe NOT raising with rubbish from under the old gun!

    Many many thanks for your reply once again

    Hope to play you in one of the coveted UKOPS events

    Lorraine :)))))
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