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AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please

jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
edited October 2011 in The Poker Clinic
I've seen rancid on plenty of tables at NL4 and he seems a solid play but he likes to play hands. I was a bit upset after this hand but thinking about it in the cold light of day (about 15 minutes later) did either of us do anything wrong? Thinking now that I might have been lucky that he only had a flush draw. My reasons for the 3-bet shove were


a) I have the ace of clubs
b) a ten chops the pot if he has AT and wins if he has T9
c) I have an over card to make a better two pair if he has two pair.
d) Finally I have top pair top kicker which might be good enough

Considering that this is a reg, is it worth just giving it up and getting money off the idiots instead?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Dendrobe Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £4.26
fred10 Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £4.50
LugeMal Big blind   £0.04 £0.10 £3.16
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • K
     
myhoneyz09 Fold        
jugglegeek Raise   £0.24 £0.34 £3.76
LugeMal Fold        
rancid Call   £0.24 £0.58 £3.36
Dendrobe Fold        
fred10 Fold        
Flop
   
  • J
  • Q
  • K
     
jugglegeek Bet   £0.44 £1.02 £3.32
rancid Raise   £1.54 £2.56 £1.82
jugglegeek All-in   £3.32 £5.88 £0.00
rancid All-in   £1.82 £7.70 £0.00
jugglegeek Unmatched bet   £0.40 £7.30 £0.40
jugglegeek Show
  • A
  • K
     
rancid Show
  • 4
  • 5
     
Turn
   
  • 10
     
River
   
  • K
     
rancid Win Flush to the King £6.75   £6.75
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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited October 2011
    You we're 68% fave when doh went in, run better. 
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    You we're 68% fave when doh went in, run better. 
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    Don't be so "results orientated" :-) I was just wondering if I should be doing this on such a wet board with no fold equity against an above average player for the level.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited October 2011
    Well tbh on that flop facing strong raise I probably would fold againt a REG as even though you have TPTK it's an ugly flop but this is Ranny and he isn't a normal REG lol, most decent REG's don't flat 6x raises on the btn w/SC's.

    So yh thinking about it longterm best to let it go and say well done on bluff, as like you say there's so much dead money at micro's no need to try and play poker. 
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  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited October 2011
    That is a horrific board to be fair. 
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    but this is Ranny and he isn't normal
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    This caught my eye !! I feel insulted
    Just fold next time, it saves the pain - you cant' flat my raise and you know I am not folding so.. you could be in really bad shape.

    Maybe you should fold, your beating btm of my raising range there so...

    I don't blame you for calling

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  • bahhbahh Member Posts: 72
    edited October 2011
    i think your plays fine, it is a danerous board but as played u got your money in while you was ahead, rancid plays like this with 54 every hand he's gonna lose a lot of money. unlucky.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please : This caught my eye !! I feel insulted Just fold next time, it saves the pain - you cant' flat my raise and you know I am not folding so.. you could be in really bad shape. Maybe you should fold, your beating btm of my raising range there so... I don't blame you for calling
    Posted by rancid
    Nice editing my friend ;)

    Also at least you've started calling big raises IP with SC's :D
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited October 2011
    Hmmm, i think im going to be critical of this hand from both points of view here.

    OP you can fold this flop. Not the best for AK, although we do have a re-draw im not comfortable with it.

    Rancid. I dislike the call pre. Against people like myself, Dudeskin and Junglegeek i think it might possibly be profitably but on the whole at NL4 one of the blinds can easily flat behind with J2 of our suit therefore we're now drawing to our straight only. Also againb the flop, Surley you know your drawing to our flush and this flop slaps Junglegeeks range harder in the face than we can imagine. I therefore dislike bluffing at it, and often we'll be in 30% against 2 pair or potentially worse v a set.

    Neither of you are sitting full stacks, please use that reload function. I do it every time i pass through a blind.


    Sorry if this sounds critical but its really my view.
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    Hmmm, i think im going to be critical of this hand from both points of view here. OP you can fold this flop. Not the best for AK, although we do have a re-draw im not comfortable with it. Rancid. I dislike the call pre. Against people like myself, Dudeskin and Junglegeek i think it might possibly be profitably but on the whole at NL4 one of the blinds can easily flat behind with J2 of our suit therefore we're now drawing to our straight only. Also againb the flop, Surley you know your drawing to our flush and this flop slaps Junglegeeks range harder in the face than we can imagine. I therefore dislike bluffing at it, and often we'll be in 30% against 2 pair or potentially worse v a set. Neither of you are sitting full stacks, please use that reload function. I do it every time i pass through a blind. Sorry if this sounds critical but its really my view.
    Posted by The_Don90
    I am. Check again
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please : I am. Check again
    Posted by jugglegeek
    sry i do appoligie i forgot to add ur bet size in.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    Rancid. I dislike the call pre. Against people like myself, Dudeskin and Junglegeek i think it might possibly be profitably but on the whole at NL4 one of the blinds can easily flat behind with J2 of our suit therefore we're now drawing to our straight only. Also againb the flop, Surley you know your drawing to our flush and this flop slaps Junglegeeks range harder in the face than we can imagine. I therefore dislike bluffing at it, and often we'll be in 30% against 2 pair or potentially worse v a set. 
    Posted by The_Don90
    I understand the perils of 45s here, but flatting here v narrow range open HU I am looking to take oppo's stack
    Thought I would put him to the test on the flop and I got an answer, v regs i finks it's ok long term
    V standard oppo then obviously you fold pre ) v you though I'am 3 betting TBH :D
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited October 2011

    I prob fold to flop raise v  4NL reg

    I dont think I like rancids raise either without pretty good reads

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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please : I understand the perils of 45s here, but flatting here v narrow range open HU I am looking to take oppo's stack Thought I would put him to the test on the flop and I got an answer, v regs i finks it's ok long term V standard oppo then obviously you fold pre ) v you though I'am 3 betting TBH :D
    Posted by rancid
    really. Seriously mate, if you want to take 30% for my stack when we're 100BB deep every hand my wallet is open and waiting. ;)
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    I prob fold to flop raise v  4NL reg I dont think I like rancids raise either without pretty good reads
    Posted by grantorino

    If I read oppo (Tight Aggro) for minimum of JJ+-AK, my raise will get a fold the majority of the time if he has NOT got the ace clubs blocker.


    Once I flat pre I have to follow through on my post flop plan so...if oppo has str/set then hey ho here we go I am in bad shape

    Gran - do you mean my reads should be that he opens wider therefore giving myself more chance to fold out his range on the flop by semi bluffing or playing position. 


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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited October 2011
    Flatting a minraise/even 3x on the button might be ok but it's a 6x FGS, that's not cheap and what happens when flop doesn't bring FD but it's A105r like it will most times, you have to just fold and you've set fire to 6bbs, oh and also you're only 90bb deep before you begin lol


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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please : If I read oppo (Tight Aggro) for minimum of JJ+-AK, my raise will get a fold the majority of the time if he has NOT got the ace clubs blocker. Once I flat pre I have to follow through on my post flop plan so...if oppo has str/set then hey ho here we go I am in bad shape Gran - do you mean my reads should be that he opens wider therefore giving myself more chance to fold out his range on the flop by semi bluffing or playing position. 
    Posted by rancid
    ok so your now expecting people to fold sets. Good luck.
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited October 2011
    I also think that there was some serious leveling going on from my end too. I'm playing against someone who i know has reads on me that I only play big premium hands. When I bet the flop I know that rancid thinks that I can only have one of about 7 possible hands (AK, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, KQ & AT) none of which can invole 2 clubs apart from AcTc.

    Against an unknown I probably fold when I get raised on the flop, but I felt that rancid may be trying to exploit my nitlike tendancies. I respect the play from rancid but I don't think he has enough fold equity against my range, I'm not folding JJ, QQ, KK, KQ and AT to anyone. That pretty much leave AK and AA which I might fold.

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  • step7step7 Member Posts: 298
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    but I don't think he has enough fold equity against my range.
    Posted by jugglegeek

    Exactly what I was thinking, interesting to know what part of your "narrow" range - as Rancid puts it - he expecting you to fold here..

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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please : If I read oppo (Tight Aggro) for minimum of JJ+-AK, my raise will get a fold the majority of the time if he has NOT got the ace clubs blocker. Once I flat pre I have to follow through on my post flop plan so...if oppo has str/set then hey ho here we go I am in bad shape Gran - do you mean my reads should be that he opens wider therefore giving myself more chance to fold out his range on the flop by semi bluffing or playing position. 
    Posted by rancid
    You think a 4NL reg whose range is JJ+, AK, will fold to a raise on a KQJ board enough? Gl with that, they wont fold AK/AA hardly ever(also having the Ac as a blocker is bad for OP here, as it weights your range more towards made hands) and they never fold sets

    Your plan when you flat pre has to be different for different boards. Also even if his range is wider, its not a board regs cbet with air that often.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please:
    In Response to Re: AK vs NL4 reg. Thoughts please : ok so your now expecting people to fold sets. Good luck.
    Posted by The_Don90
    lol ofc not, i was saying if they have str/set then they are not folding - ie the only tight range I can fold out is AK from a very tight open on that flop

    Therefore instead of flatting v a tight open - it would make more sense  to flat v a wide open therefore giving yourself more of a chance oppo will fold to the semi bluff on the flop or play position v there wide open

    Just talking about the play in general not his very hand )

    And yes Dudeskin, it would be setting fire to money if you always done this with SC's, we agree on that )
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