"villain checks the turn to me after i miss the draw, i feel my aggression on the flop has won me a free river card to see if i hit or even rep something if the conditions suit. If i bet turn and villain calls, its going to risk me more chips on the river to have a stab at winning the hand due to the inflated pot"
Very well put. Couldnt agree more. Especially if your going to fire river if he checks to you again (and you've missed).
As said origonally, seemed like your 1pr river hands were going to be good also (being happy to most likely check back river 1pr hands).
Bit random but in cash 100bb deep and you open with 56s from late position/btn do you want blinds to fold, isn't it a case of creating a pot to then take down on flop/hitting strong with disguised hand or have I got this wrong ?
You will pick up more from the blind stationing, then c/fing over sample than you will when the blinds just fold. With the added advantage of potentially making a hand, plus we keep our range disguised. Also increasing the likelyhood of being played back at when strong.
You could fill pages and pages with strategy surrounding this element. Some people subscribe to the line, some people dont. Thats Poker. But we dont raise essentialy for people to fold. We arent simply looking for big hands to collide, getting big chunks of stack in there. There are smaller pots to be had cheaply along the way. We arent just looking to pick up the blinds here.
So yes, what you mention in part Dudeskin. But as long as we fire a realistic amount of time into any flop post it will be profitable, wether we connect or not. But remembering we arent even playing for 6BB's out of a 75bb stack here.
see i knew he was at it lol thats why i said about the shoving on the river teehee. Was kinda obv from the way he was just flatting and a bet on the river size kinda gave it away. As i said a raise on the turn woulda made him fold so infact as you hit the st8 you had him hook line and sinker and the check call worked out fine maybe a min raise on the river to get value as he could have the flush but i didnt think he did, but saftey calling i suppose. Remember just cos you see a possible flush dosnt mean they always have it and he dosnt know that you dont have it! Wp m8
You will pick up more from the blind stationing, then c/fing over sample than you will when the blinds just fold. With the added advantage of potentially making a hand, plus we keep our range disguised. Also increasing the likelyhood of being played back at when strong. You could fill pages and pages with strategy surrounding this element. Some people subscribe to the line, some people dont. Thats Poker. But we dont raise essentialy for people to fold. We arent simply looking for big hands to collide, getting big chunks of stack in there. There are smaller pots to be had cheaply along the way. We arent just looking to pick up the blinds here. So yes, what you mention in part Dudeskin. But as long as we fire a realistic amount of time into any flop post it will be profitable, wether we connect or not. But remembering we arent even playing for 6BB's out of a 75bb stack here. Posted by AMYBR
I dont think its at all clear that its going to be more profitable when blinds flat us than when they fold. That depends on their calling range pre and how they play postflop. We cant just assume we take it down with a cbet nearly always. Villains postflop play is going to be a huge factor here, for example can we make him fold when he flops a pair and we flop a big draw. Also I definitely want anyone Im oop to to fold here
Agree about picking up small pots, and there are other advantages to opening these type of hands. Just think its going to be villain dependent if we want folds or calls
easiest call ever as played Preflop i like I would barrel the turn also nice hand Posted by GREGHOGG
why? what hands fold that called you on the flop? the 4 changes nothing as if villain thinks he is good on the flop he still thinks hes good, in general a paired card is a horrible card to continue barrelling
In Response to Re: Right call or calling station? : why? what hands fold that called you on the flop? the 4 changes nothing as if villain thinks he is good on the flop he still thinks hes good, in general a paired card is a horrible card to continue barrelling Posted by lynx3ffect
some hands fold to agression here imo, pocket pairs and hands like AK, AJ.
Barelling with a disguised hand, if we hit, cant be a bad thing imo.
In Response to Re: Right call or calling station? : some hands fold to agression here imo, pocket pairs and hands like AK, AJ. Barelling with a disguised hand, if we hit, cant be a bad thing imo. Just suits my style of play Posted by GREGHOGG
noted , its ok, as long as ur happy bombing the river if u miss too...
In Response to Re: Right call or calling station? : I dont think its at all clear that its going to be more profitable when blinds flat us than when they fold. That depends on their calling range pre and how they play postflop. We cant just assume we take it down with a cbet nearly always. Villains postflop play is going to be a huge factor here, for example can we make him fold when he flops a pair and we flop a big draw. Also I definitely want anyone Im oop to to fold here Agree about picking up small pots, and there are other advantages to opening these type of hands. Just think its going to be villain dependent if we want folds or calls Posted by grantorino
As I already said. Pages and pages could be written around the pro's and cons of this single element of MTT strategy.
It goes without saying that we are going to considor opponents tendancies/aggression factor and dynamic.
As said, some people subscribe to this approach, others wont. Also as said, fringe benefits when hand goes south hovever
Were not assuming we take it down with a cbet "nearly always". But we are looking to give ourselves every advantage here, as an overall approach. You mentioned earlier that our hand may aswell be 83 here with this philosophy. And for the most part your right. As long as we have a plan and no what our goals are, we dont need to be hand dependant.
Comments
Very well put. Couldnt agree more. Especially if your going to fire river if he checks to you again (and you've missed).
As said origonally, seemed like your 1pr river hands were going to be good also (being happy to most likely check back river 1pr hands).
Definately dont want both, but would rather one than neither.
You could fill pages and pages with strategy surrounding this element. Some people subscribe to the line, some people dont. Thats Poker. But we dont raise essentialy for people to fold. We arent simply looking for big hands to collide, getting big chunks of stack in there. There are smaller pots to be had cheaply along the way. We arent just looking to pick up the blinds here.
So yes, what you mention in part Dudeskin. But as long as we fire a realistic amount of time into any flop post it will be profitable, wether we connect or not. But remembering we arent even playing for 6BB's out of a 75bb stack here.
If they fold - ok - if they call - ok
we don't want them to raise now do we unless we have a hand we can fight back with
Ours plans for the hand change if raised. But yes, a flat is far prefferable to a raise in this scenario, my bad
Agree about picking up small pots, and there are other advantages to opening these type of hands. Just think its going to be villain dependent if we want folds or calls
easiest call ever as played
Preflop i like
I would barrel the turn also
nice hand
Barelling with a disguised hand, if we hit, cant be a bad thing imo.
Just suits my style of play
It goes without saying that we are going to considor opponents tendancies/aggression factor and dynamic.
As said, some people subscribe to this approach, others wont. Also as said, fringe benefits when hand goes south hovever
Were not assuming we take it down with a cbet "nearly always". But we are looking to give ourselves every advantage here, as an overall approach. You mentioned earlier that our hand may aswell be 83 here with this philosophy. And for the most part your right. As long as we have a plan and no what our goals are, we dont need to be hand dependant.