In Response to Re: NL10, hold KK with A on flop. Give up? : Maybe but I have KK and I don't fold for 80p ) plus the K of diamonds is coming on the turn just to compound my misery !!! seriously still not folding to one bet, call me a station if you want Posted by rancid
Neither do I fold if it's a silly minbet but if it's anything around half-pot why would you call, you have essentially have two outs if he has ace and if he doesn't can you really c/c 3 streets with UP to ace.
In Response to Re: NL10, hold KK with A on flop. Give up? : Can we agree to c/c ? ) The calls we are looking for are the draws/worse I guess, meanwhile c/c will keep in draws and worse but obviously we ain't good enough here to c/r which is a bit of a problem Even though not folding flop leads to difficult spots on turn/river, I don't think this is a good enough reason to fold what is a very big hand. c/f only leads us to be bluffed off very easily. Kinda leaning towards c/c, keeping in worse/draws/bluffs tbh Posted by rancid
KK is not a very big hand on an A high board 4way. Its a very mediocre hand
yeah c/c if you want but your probably going to be oop with no idea if they fire again with worse or if they always have an A if they fire again, tonnes of turncards complete draws. If you really think you can play rest of hand perfectly in this situation you can consider putting more money in pot, but I think thats unlikely (certainly for me) readless oop. People bluff less in 4way pots, and also one of them has an A a good percentage of the time
Im happy to c/f here because I think I end up folding later in hand too often if I bet or c/c flop readless with poor position, also will be beat a fair percentage of time we reach showdown
I do think at times I am too aggressive so you probably have a point but I think c/f here is really really weak. Yes an A can be in one of the villans range but I believe If im holding a weak suited ace which is more likely since they never re-raised the op's mid pos raise then I'm not going to be too happy about calling down with it. But I will check QQ if an A and a K fell on the flop in a multi-way pot. I may be calling them down with AJ here but to be honest I'm not going to be too happy if they fire again on the turn and I think they may do so again on the river. They fire twice there im not thinking "I think they have an underpair and my ragged ace may be good here" Posted by RandomRiv
Imo people worry about being "weak" way too much. No one knows you c/f KK here so dont worry about it. Be much more concerned about whether putting more money in pot is profitable
Also as dudeskin says how you think about this hand is not how your average microstakes player thinks. They think woohoo I have top pair keep pressing call
Only person that worries me what they think about I played the hand is me. I know they don't know I have KK and fold it there. But I think c/f KK here is weak cos you just give up. You say it is very likely someone hit that Ace. Which is right. But that ace is in your range more than any other players range at the table the way the hand went pre flop. Yes there are players who only think of there hand. You get them at higher stakes than this also. But like I've said before NL4 is im my opion is now the same level of play that NL10 was 2 years ago. More players than not "ARE" thinking about their opponents cards. Maybe betting the turn also is chucking chips away but you can't just c/f here.....At least fire one shot!!
If we think everytime we are holding KK and an ace falls down that we are beaten, then ur never gonna win anything! why does someone have to have an ace?? i am definitely betting the flop every time. if we then get some rsistance, re-assess on the turn. how do we know a king wont come on the turn?? if it does and we are confident the guy will go all the way, we have a good chance to stack them. if it dosnt come down, we can maybe slow down.
I think you need to raise more pre-flop to avoid getting into a 4-way situation like this. Once you get an early caller others will come along for the value. I prefer to try and get heads up with a hand like this, if they all fold so be it. I would be raising 5 or 6 times and more on a very loose table. It is down to personal preference and a lot of players agree with your size raise so I am not going to consider it an error. I think you can go two ways from here, C bet and fold to any heavy action, the problem with this is you are likely to be called by weak aces or draws as you can't put a large bet in with that flop and you are not going to gain much information from the called bets. I think it is better to try and get to showdown as cheaply as possible and hopefully hit another king.
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yeah c/c if you want but your probably going to be oop with no idea if they fire again with worse or if they always have an A if they fire again, tonnes of turncards complete draws. If you really think you can play rest of hand perfectly in this situation you can consider putting more money in pot, but I think thats unlikely (certainly for me) readless oop. People bluff less in 4way pots, and also one of them has an A a good percentage of the time
Im happy to c/f here because I think I end up folding later in hand too often if I bet or c/c flop readless with poor position, also will be beat a fair percentage of time we reach showdown
Also as dudeskin says how you think about this hand is not how your average microstakes player thinks. They think woohoo I have top pair keep pressing call
Only person that worries me what they think about I played the hand is me. I know they don't know I have KK and fold it there. But I think c/f KK here is weak cos you just give up. You say it is very likely someone hit that Ace. Which is right. But that ace is in your range more than any other players range at the table the way the hand went pre flop.
Yes there are players who only think of there hand. You get them at higher stakes than this also. But like I've said before NL4 is im my opion is now the same level of play that NL10 was 2 years ago. More players than not "ARE" thinking about their opponents cards.
Maybe betting the turn also is chucking chips away but you can't just c/f here.....At least fire one shot!!