Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?

JackoG9

Tough spot, but can I fold here?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
JackoG9	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£8.53
Strider_78	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£5.64
	Your hole cards	Q Q
alcando	Raise		£0.24	£0.36	£9.57
soff	Fold
TheRat1	Fold
g_dawwwg	Fold
JackoG9	Raise		£0.72	£1.08	£7.81
Strider_78	Fold
alcando	All-in		£9.57	£10.65	£0.00
JackoG9	??

debdobs_67

Id be suprised if THIS villian does not have KK or AA , but notes aint always correct )

Dudeskin8

I ain't folding this, looks like AK to me.

pod1

i would let this go.

grantorino

1. You should know the answer to that question before you 3bet

2. The answer should nearly always be call, otherwise you prob shouldnt be 3betting. To 3b/f QQ 100BB deep you would need very clear reads on his flatting and raising ranges

rancid

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

1. You should know the answer to that question before you 3bet 2. The answer should nearly always be call, otherwise you prob shouldnt be 3betting. To 3b/f QQ 100BB deep you would need very clear reads on his flatting and raising ranges
Posted by grantorino

+1 if you considering 3 bet folding QQ then just flat tbh

pod1

not sure here gt. the vill 4 x utg with any half decent hand, im not flatting with qq to that kinda bet (at this level) . but the 4 bet all in changes my thinking  of how strong the qs are now. people dont 3 bet f very often (if ever ) at nl 8 so he aint jamming to get you off this hand . if qq is flipping here hes lucky.

rancid

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

not sure here gt. the vill 4 x utg with any half decent hand, im not flatting with qq to that kinda bet (at this level) . but the 4 bet all in changes my thinking  of how strong the qs are now. people dont 3 bet f very often (if ever ) at nl 8 so he aint jamming to get you off this hand . if qq is flipping here hes lucky.
Posted by pod1

Just depends what oppo 4 bet shoves 100 bb deep, otherwise can't see how we fold here

Like GT states, need really good solid reads to consider folding here - I think it's s standard 3 bet spot/get it in

grantorino

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

not sure here gt. the vill 4 x utg with any half decent hand, im not flatting with qq to that kinda bet (at this level) . but the 4 bet all in changes my thinking  of how strong the qs are now. people dont 3 bet f very often (if ever ) at nl 8 so he aint jamming to get you off this hand . if qq is flipping here hes lucky.
Posted by pod1

just because you beat his opening range doesnt mean you should 3bet

When we 3bet he can fold/call/4bet. We dont want him to fold, if we are 3b/f we need to be pretty sure he only 4bets better and has a pretty wide flatting range (maybe this happens enough at 8NL but I wouldnt like to assume it readless). Otherwise we almost turn QQ into a bluff

pod1

what do you think the range is for 90% of people to 4 bet jam?

rancid

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

what do you think the range is for 90% of people to 4 bet jam?
Posted by pod1

There are benefits to flat here with QQ to get value from worse, even though worse will flat your 3 bet very probably anyway - but at the same time you have to think about your own perceived 3 betting range )

If your 3 betting QQ, then get it in - if you don't then how do you get action on AA/KK ?

a very small percentage of the time you can 3 bet fold where oppo range is always only KK/AA
Yet again depends what oppo's 4 bet shove range is

without reads - QQ - auto stack off

pod1

i must me such a nit, yes i auto stack ks here but not qs. what  you doing with jj rancid pre and post?

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

i must me such a nit, yes i auto stack ks here but not qs. what  you doing with jj rancid pre and post?
Posted by pod1

So if this same hand happened to you at NL30 you'd fold against a random ?!

rancid

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

i must me such a nit, yes i auto stack ks here but not qs. what  you doing with jj rancid pre and post?
Posted by pod1

If I post all my ranges, would that be ok )

Depends, dynamic/oppo

v random with no reads, may just flat

pod1

i think you highlighted the wrong bit dude, but good question. the game is a litle more subtle at nl30 and i a goodish player wouldnt  do this (standard 4 bet ) you have more experience at this level than i do, but like i said before most people dont 3 bet  fold so he is doing this wanting you to call. 

back to would i call at nl30 mmmmm, depends how he has played whilst on the table and how he percieves my game.

rancid

Bottom line is if your playing against players that only 4 bet AA/KK then that's one easy table )

You could effectively 4 bet all 3 bets and make it profitable )

pod1

apart from like i say rancid people dont 3 bet fold so as long as you dont 4bet light you should do just fine lol

rancid

no one said it was ez

gracie24

go with your gut. In most cases I would fold unless I had a very good read

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Fold QQ pre flop at NL8?:

i think you highlighted the wrong bit dude, but good question. the game is a litle more subtle at nl30 and i a goodish player wouldnt  do this (standard 4 bet ) you have more experience at this level than i do, but like i said before most people dont 3 bet  fold so he is doing this wanting you to call.  back to would i call at nl30 mmmmm, depends how he has played whilst on the table and how he percieves my game.
Posted by pod1

No offence but these sort of lines tilt me so bad, it's like your saying we're a bunch of mindless Neandathols running around with clubs, I've seen NL30 hands on Mastercash and many are very similar to NL4. 

pod1

not designed to tilt you dude , just fact. of coarse theres some crass play, i should know i do it quite regularly but on the whole the standard is better and you cant deny that. better hands are camouflaged poorer hands are played better fact. MOST people have earnt the right to play higher levels hence the play is on the whole better. come on dude even you say there is a big difference in nl10 to nl4 why would you possibly think nl30 is worse than that!