newbie any help or advice appreciated

paddie007

Hiya all as the title suggests been on here for approx 10 days now and have had varying luck if you can call it that.

Have played a mixture of freeroll, and pay tournaments and have come within the winning places a couple of times... Am very bad at cash games whether they be 2/4p or 5/10p....always lose.

Have read up a little on the poker school page of this website and have been trying to play to the guidelines eg - only play strong starting hands and position etc but always get caught out...

have copied and pasted my poker details from my account below although it is quite long (wasn't aware i had played so much to be honest).

feel free to give any feedback or if you require any further details.

kind regards in advance..

DateGame NumberGame TypeGame NameBet LimitMoney InMoney OutToken amountDetails2012-01-17 22:57:291445300875Cash TableDumbartonLow No Limit£0.00£5.00 Hand Info2012-01-17 22:55:011445294780Cash TableTimperleyLow No Limit£0.00£5.00 Hand Info2012-01-16 21:20:011443103796TournamentDouble Your MoneyNo Limit£1.00£0.60 Hand Info2012-01-16 19:59:061442910145Tournament£600 Bounty HunterNo Limit£0.00£2.30 Hand Info2012-01-16 19:25:021442833625Tournament£250 Bounty HunterNo Limit£0.00£2.30 Hand Info2012-01-16 18:02:341442670480Cash TableCreweMicro No Limit£7.33£4.00 Hand Info2012-01-16 18:01:021442667988Cash TableMaster Cash 1Micro No Limit£0.00£5.00 Hand Info2012-01-16 15:51:431442484118Tournament£50 Gtd FreerollNo Limit£0.00£0.00 Hand Info2012-01-16 14:26:141442379166Tournament£250 Bounty HunterNo Limit£1.88£5.75 Hand Info2012-01-16 13:13:271442290489Cash TableTimperleyLow No Limit£9.06£5.00 Hand Info2012-01-16 13:09:411442286611Cash TableMiddlewichLow No Limit£5.02£5.00 Hand Info2012-01-16 12:54:311442271258Tournament£1k New Player FRNo Limit£0.00£0.00 Hand Info2012-01-15 20:41:511441353471Tournament£500 Bounty HunterNo Limit£28.28£2.30 Hand Info2012-01-15 18:47:431441130712Tournament£100 Gtd FreerollNo Limit£0.00£0.50 Hand Info2012-01-15 15:21:521440788178Tournament£50 Gtd FreerollNo Limit£0.00£0.50 Hand Info2012-01-15 14:06:401440676029TournamentDouble Your MoneyNo Limit£0.00£5.50 Hand Info2012-01-14 23:27:531439849151Cash TableHollingworthLow No Limit£0.00£5.00 Hand Info2012-01-14 21:55:331439614775Tournament£100 Gtd FreerollNo Limit£0.00£0.00 Hand Info2012-01-14 21:07:42<td style="margin-top:0px;marg

YOUNG_GUN

Hi,

Welcome, there isnt really much information or help we can give you based on what you have played.

What is it you need help in? is it what games you should be playing? Stakes? 

I'm really sorry just its very unclear what you need help in. 

It all depends on what your bankoll is(u dont need to disclose this), also what games you enjoy and ones you have been playing well.

Give more info and im sure there will be plenty of good advice.

Good luck at the tables

John

paddie007

Hiya John,

apologies when i copied the above from my account details i swear it had figures of what i had won and what i had lost (lots)...

i have been playing the freerolls mainly and used the £10 tokens they give when you signuo, slowly worked it upto about £45 before losing most of it on dym!!!!! and now have managed to build it to just under £50.

although i think i have been a little lucky as been called a fish a fair few times in many tournaments.

have played dym, bountyhunter and regular tournaments and experimented with cash games mainly to get my poker points up.

just curious when to be more agrresive etc as it always appears to me that when i fold what is normally seen as bad cards 7,2 and 9,4 etc they always seem to come up and i miss out on a fullhouse...but then i play an A,k and 3 or 4 bet when in good position and i lose everything.

what are the poker points like are they worth accruing to get the first 30 day bonus?  what is the easiest and quickest  way to accrue them?

cheers all, all advice and input greatly appreciated.

AcidMan27

Don't start playing raggy hands. You're just remembering the times they have hit the flop hard and you're forgetting the hundreds of times they miss completely.

I'd say play which ever games you enjoy playing, if that's DYM's, cash, MTT's.

There are some really good guides on how to play all forms of poker in the blogs page.

Tikay10

Hi paddie.

If I am reading Sharkscope correctly, you are a winning player in Tourneys & STT's, albeit over a small sample size.

If that is the case, then don't change a thing!

GaryQQQ

In Response to newbie any help or advice appreciated:

Am very bad at cash games whether they be 2/4p or 5/10p....always lose.  Posted by paddie007

Based on this comment and your Sharkscope results it looks to me like you might be best off focussing on tournament poker and ignoring cash tables for now.

The cash/tournament skill sets are very different. Your natural style may be best suited to tournament play, much like many other players including myself. Good luck!

profman15

Hi
I've been in your position and wanted guidance. I've only been playing 6 months on Sky but i'd recommend.......

1. Get a couple of good books. Personally i love the Harringtons and Phil Gordon's little green book. They are well laid out and readable. Study and make notes.

2. Steer away from cash games....its a different strategy and can make you tilt.

3. Don't expect great results initially...it really is a learning curve.

4. Make yourself a statistics sheet to record the stats shown as you play. They are useful and may give you an insight as to where you are going wrong.

5. Treat your bankroll as money you are using to learn the basics. Almost as money you've allotted to a course. Consequently play low cost T's and DYM's .

6. DYM's -make notes on players as you go to help you focus. You can learn a lot about patience in these SNG's for a small amount and may be playing against some similar beginners at very low cost games. You don't want to be meeting Julian Thew etc too much do you?

7. Make lists of aims and achievements. Its nice to be able to tick these off occasionally and shows improvement. It may be as little as having a winning evening, making a final table, going in a satellite and qualifying. The better you become the aims will be higher and higher.

  Anyway, that's all i can think of at the moment. I feel i've made strides since i've joined but no doubt some observers with more experience and skill would look at some of my plays and term me a fish at times. Its a great game and as long as you don't shoot for the stars too early you can improve hand over fist in the early months.

 Don't be afraid to send me a line with any thoughts of what was the best or worst advice here and how your game is going especially when you can see errors you where making regularly in your early days. That's when you know you're improving!!

                                                                     all the best
                                                                            Steve aka profman15

profman15

In Response to newbie any help or advice appreciated:

Hiya all as the title suggests been on here for approx 10 days now and have had varying luck if you can call it that. Have played a mixture of freeroll, and pay tournaments and have come within the winning places a couple of times... Am very bad at cash games whether they be 2/4p or 5/10p....always lose. Have read up a little on the poker school page of this website and have been trying to play to the guidelines eg - only play strong starting hands and position etc but always get caught out... have copied and pasted my poker details from my account below although it is quite long (wasn't aware i had played so much to be honest). feel free to give any feedback or if you require any further details. kind regards in advance.. Date Game Number Game Type Game Name Bet Limit Money In Money Out Token amount Details 2012-01-17 22:57:29 1445300875 Cash Table Dumbarton Low No Limit £0.00 £5.00   Hand Info 2012-01-17 22:55:01 1445294780 Cash Table Timperley Low No Limit £0.00 £5.00   Hand Info 2012-01-16 21:20:01 1443103796 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £1.00 £0.60   Hand Info 2012-01-16 19:59:06 1442910145 Tournament £600 Bounty Hunter No Limit £0.00 £2.30   Hand Info 2012-01-16 19:25:02 1442833625 Tournament £250 Bounty Hunter No Limit £0.00 £2.30   Hand Info 2012-01-16 18:02:34 1442670480 Cash Table Crewe Micro No Limit £7.33 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-16 18:01:02 1442667988 Cash Table Master Cash 1 Micro No Limit £0.00 £5.00   Hand Info 2012-01-16 15:51:43 1442484118 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-16 14:26:14 1442379166 Tournament £250 Bounty Hunter No Limit £1.88 £5.75   Hand Info 2012-01-16 13:13:27 1442290489 Cash Table Timperley Low No Limit £9.06 £5.00   Hand Info 2012-01-16 13:09:41 1442286611 Cash Table Middlewich Low No Limit £5.02 £5.00   Hand Info 2012-01-16 12:54:31 1442271258 Tournament £1k New Player FR No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-15 20:41:51 1441353471 Tournament £500 Bounty Hunter No Limit £28.28 £2.30   Hand Info 2012-01-15 18:47:43 1441130712 Tournament £100 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.50   Hand Info 2012-01-15 15:21:52 1440788178 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.50   Hand Info 2012-01-15 14:06:40 1440676029 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £5.50   Hand Info 2012-01-14 23:27:53 1439849151 Cash Table Hollingworth Low No Limit £0.00 £5.00   Hand Info 2012-01-14 21:55:33 1439614775 Tournament £100 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-14 21:07:42 1439498003 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.50 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-14 00:38:46 1437755514 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £16.50   Hand Info 2012-01-13 23:59:48 1437652541 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £20.00 £11.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 23:59:20 1437651244 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £5.50 £5.50   Hand Info 2012-01-13 23:23:21 1437550533 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £20.00 £11.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 22:39:46 1437423667 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £10.00 £5.50   Hand Info 2012-01-13 18:21:53 1436713498 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £10.00 £5.50   Hand Info 2012-01-13 15:39:26 1436397276 Tournament Super 6 Freeroll No Limit £25.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 15:38:53 1436396239 Tournament Super 6 Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 15:37:03 1436392830 Tournament Fantasy FB F/Roll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 15:36:00 1436391123 Tournament Fantasy FB F/Roll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 15:23:24 1436369713 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £2.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 15:18:05 1436360121 Tournament Super 6 Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 14:52:24 1436316063 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £2.25   Hand Info 2012-01-13 14:51:54 1436315249 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £2.25 £2.25   Hand Info 2012-01-13 14:49:23 1436311088 Tournament Super 6 Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 14:49:15 1436310858 Tournament Super 6 Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 14:18:16 1436261960 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £11.00   Hand Info 2012-01-13 14:05:16 1436242249 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.50 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-13 12:12:27 1436085832 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.60   Hand Info 2012-01-13 12:11:58 1436085272 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.35 £0.50   Hand Info 2012-01-12 16:30:53 1434389214 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.50 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-12 15:23:53 1434288900 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.50 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-12 15:23:30 1434288333 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.50   Hand Info 2012-01-12 09:50:24 1433868160 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £1.00   Hand Info 2012-01-12 09:48:58 1433866925 Tournament Russian Roulette No Limit £0.00 £1.10   Hand Info 2012-01-12 09:47:51 1433865948 Tournament Russian Roulette No Limit £0.00 £1.10   Hand Info 2012-01-11 22:59:56 1433412100 Cash Table Rhyl Micro No Limit £0.00 £2.00   Hand Info 2012-01-11 22:07:18 1433262559 Tournament Treble Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.60   Hand Info 2012-01-11 21:58:40 1433238562 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-11 21:31:48 1433168272 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-11 21:04:43 1433101140 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.50 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-11 21:03:26 1433097778 Tournament Bounty Hunter No Limit £0.35 £0.35   Hand Info 2012-01-11 20:56:49 1433080335 Tournament £0.50 + £0.05 No Limit £0.00 £0.55   Hand Info 2012-01-11 20:44:45 1433047914 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-11 17:25:30 1432640633 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-11 17:17:49 1432628870 Tournament Bounty Hunter No Limit £0.00 £0.35   Hand Info 2012-01-11 17:17:17 1432627973 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.30 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-11 15:32:07 1432465120 Cash Table Wedmore Micro No Limit £0.00 £0.59   Hand Info 2012-01-11 15:25:45 1432455961 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.50   Hand Info 2012-01-11 01:31:42 1431783451 Tournament £0.50 + £0.05 No Limit £1.00 £0.55   Hand Info 2012-01-11 01:30:41 1431781786 Tournament £1 + £0.10 No Limit £1.10 £1.10   Hand Info 2012-01-11 01:14:10 1431752346 Cash Table Dunster Micro No Limit £0.00 £1.60   Hand Info 2012-01-10 23:57:15 1431592657 Cash Table Coventry Micro No Limit £9.74 £1.65   Hand Info 2012-01-10 23:38:34 1431549642 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-10 20:05:17 1431002494 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-10 19:53:33 1430975948 Tournament Turbocharged DYM No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-10 18:34:01 1430804742 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.30   Hand Info 2012-01-10 18:25:10 1430786687 Tournament Double Your Money No Limit £0.00 £0.60   Hand Info 2012-01-10 18:18:54 1430775579 Cash Table Alva Micro No Limit £0.00 £2.70   Hand Info 2012-01-10 17:37:28 1430706241 Tournament Bounty Hunter No Limit £0.00 £0.35   Hand Info 2012-01-10 17:15:45 1430672566 Tournament Bounty Hunter No Limit £0.00 £0.35   Hand Info 2012-01-10 11:13:56 1430152951 Tournament £25 Guaranteed No Limit £0.00 £1.10   Hand Info 2012-01-09 23:54:46 1429578809 Cash Table Gatenby Micro No Limit £0.00 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 23:33:48 1429533864 Cash Table Dundalk Micro Pot Limit £0.00 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 23:11:40 1429482840 Cash Table Bepton Micro No Limit £3.15 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 22:29:49 1429376245 Tournament £100 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £1.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 22:12:15 1429330271 Tournament Deep Stack No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 22:12:15 1429330271 Tournament Deep Stack No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 20:46:50 1429114999 Tournament £150 Deep Stack No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 20:46:50 1429114999 Tournament £150 Deep Stack No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 19:51:19 1429000582 Tournament £1k New Player FR No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 18:27:21 1428830288 Cash Table Havant Micro No Limit £9.97 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 18:27:21 1428830288 Cash Table Havant Micro No Limit £0.00 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 18:15:55 1428809350 Cash Table Havant Micro No Limit £0.00 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 18:15:55 1428809350 Cash Table Havant Micro No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 18:03:41 1428786754 Cash Table Donnington Micro No Limit £0.00 £4.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 18:03:41 1428786754 Cash Table Donnington Micro No Limit £5.97 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-09 15:58:18 1428577874 Tournament £50 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.35 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-08 22:29:59 1427589553 Tournament £100 Gtd Freeroll No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-08 20:51:22 1427366927 Tournament £100 Gtd Speed No Limit £25.65 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-08 20:51:22 1427366927 Tournament £100 Gtd Speed No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-08 16:58:08 1426887256 Cash Table Sunderland Micro No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-08 16:58:08 1426887256 Cash Table Sunderland Micro No Limit £0.00 £0.40   Hand Info 2012-01-08 16:41:00 1426855518 Tournament £50 Gtd Speed No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info 2012-01-08 16:41:00 1426855518 Tournament £50 Gtd Speed No Limit £0.00 £0.00   Hand Info
Posted by paddie007

Hi Paddy

  I meant to write to you un reply but ended up putting my answer as a post. Find it and tell me what you think. It was added to the site on the same date.
                                                                    cheers

                                                                        Steve aka profman15

rancid

Sharkscope says your doing ok

Leave cash alone if your losing


stick to the games you do well in, varying formats will just mess your head up
stick to one format, read up a little on it on the internet and get better


simplez
good luck

paddie007

cheers all, looks like i'll stick to freeroll and cheap tourneys for the time being and plenty more reading.

I like the advice with regards setting targets and using the current bankroll as a learning kitty.

will keep playing and learning.

and hope to avoid the sharks......

good luck to all who responded and may the poker gods shine down on us...

paddie007

also what is sharkscope?

shaun84

Sharkscope is a website that allows you to check results for a poker player. You can check MTT's(Multi Table Tournaments), STT's(Single Table Tournaments) and the two combined. It doesn't allow you to check cash table win/loss though. It is handy to see which is your more profitable genre and will give you a total to work from if you go down the MTT or STT route. Best of luck at the tables, and enjoy the game. If your enjoying it then the learning doesn't feel like a chore. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham

18wheeler

i'm new as well, about 2 weeks in approx.
i read the poker school stuff and watched the vids on here, makes sense and seems to work well.
after reading peoples advice, i have gone the bankroll route, of which i expect to mostly lose early on, and slowly hopefully improve. i've tried various games, try a few that people advise, and see what suits you best i guess. i do so so on dym's, rubbish at omaha, so mainly do cash, or low stake tourneys.
2p/4p i'm ok, i don't bluff, pointless at this level as i've learnt from advice given to me here, by those in the know. thought i'd try next step up, 5p10p, hmmmm, different level altogether, bit out of my league at mo, although did end up a tenner up yesterday!
something must be working though, as i do really take note of what people have told me since i've been on skypoker, the other night i came 1st of 30, and won a seat at a later tourney, where i placed 89th if memory serves me right, 89 out of 268 entrants i think.
BUT, last night, my best yet, in a bounty hunter, think there was 68 starters, i made it to the final table, and went onto finish 4th, i was over the moon with that one, and got £27   

good luck with your progress, enjoy it!

paddie007

shaun a fellow villan... good luck buddy..

thanks for the heads up regards sharkscape will have a look hen I'v a little more time.

18 wheeler congrats on the prize money yesterday £27 sounds good for a hobby after 2 weeks...

will keep in mind your advise regards the vids on poker school, have read the small stakes stuff and some of it seems to have registered  but i think will reread it again over the weekend to see how much I am actually utting into practise.

good luck all...

am liking this community feel here..

shaun84

In Response to Re: newbie any help or advice appreciated:

shaun a fellow villan... good luck buddy.. thanks for the heads up regards sharkscape will have a look hen I'v a little more time. 18 wheeler congrats on the prize money yesterday £27 sounds good for a hobby after 2 weeks... will keep in mind your advise regards the vids on poker school, have read the small stakes stuff and some of it seems to have registered  but i think will reread it again over the weekend to see how much I am actually utting into practise. good luck all... am liking this community feel here..
Posted by paddie007

Best of luck mate. If you want any advice or would like a sounding board for ideas then feel free to message me. I am on FaceBook and name is Shaun Stait. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham

paddie007

cheers shaun mate, 

have started to get a little adventurous today and played 3 tables on the cash games at 2p/4p during happy hour to get my poker points up during my first 30 days.  was up on 2 tables and down on the other all in about a £1 up over 1hr which I was chuffed with as every other time I have played these I've lost everything i goto the table with.  

managed to play a pocket pair of aces all wrong and lost out to a flush thank god the guy only had a £1.....

won't be soft raising pocket aces again...allin, bam.

I think the guide to best 10 hands has been a great help as before I was playing anything...

and patience and discipline need to be greatly improved.  

one question - should bounty hunter tournaments be treated the same as normal tournaments?? 

and to best manage my bankroll - just under £50 

is it best to play the cheap (30p) sit and go's 

or the cheap (£1-£2) tournaments?

where would I learn more do you think?

cheers in advance again..

shaun84

If you give me a day I'll ask some of my teammates where you can find some documents that will give you a structure to help you improve. For the moment I'd stick to the Micro DYM's. They have the least variance. That is a term you'll hear a lot(Variance) but you'll get an idea of what it is when you read the docs that I'll direct you to. Good luck and I'll speak soon. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham

TINTIN

In Response to Re: newbie any help or advice appreciated:

cheers shaun mate,  have started to get a little adventurous today and played 3 tables on the cash games at 2p/4p during happy hour to get my poker points up during my first 30 days.  was up on 2 tables and down on the other all in about a £1 up over 1hr which I was chuffed with as every other time I have played these I've lost everything i goto the table with.   managed to play a pocket pair of aces all wrong and lost out to a flush thank god the guy only had a £1..... won't be soft raising pocket aces again...allin, bam. I think the guide to best 10 hands has been a great help as before I was playing anything... and patience and discipline need to be greatly improved.   one question - should bounty hunter tournaments be treated the same as normal tournaments??  and to best manage my bankroll - just under £50  is it best to play the cheap (30p) sit and go's  or the cheap (£1-£2) tournaments? where would I learn more do you think? cheers in advance again..
Posted by paddie007

unfortunatley happy hour doesnt cover 2p/4p tables. standard points whatever hour of the day it is.

DrSharp

Hi paddie.

I started out just over a year ago. The best advice from me would be to use the Poker Clinic. Any hands you feel you butchered or were unsure about, post them up in the poker clinic section of the forum and you will get alot of nice friendly responces. Dont worry about posting simple hands up, people are more than happy to help out with your game. The guys in the clinic have really helped me with my game over the 12 months or so i have been in poker. Its a must!

Try posting the aces hand you spoke about. The feedback could be beneficial for your game. Good luck.

Lambert180

I'm not having a moan at the OP but does anyone else think Sky  should put up a sticky giving basic answers to this kinda thing because you get a 'newbie' asking for advice on here multiple times a week. Not complaining, but it might be helpful to have a sticky just give basic BRM recommendations and basic tips to bear in mind

paddie007

cheers drsharp

although I think I know what I did wrong i will post the hand up and see if my thoughts are right or just what a beginner thinks is right, maybe some of the more experienced players would play it completely differently.

live and learn i guess and stick to one table at a time as more than one and suddenly you almost don't see pocket k, aces in time to raise or even call!!