raising is suicide vs a maniac who is gonna flat in pos wiv ATC call /> shove /> fold /> raise i think, but this rely's on being able to play well post flop Posted by SHANXTA
how is calling good - maybe fold />all - and just not get involved with maniac with marignal hands )
If you don't like playing oop then just fold
btw, how is oppo a maniac by limping - lols If manaic is shoving then just raise/snap oppo shove )
suppose we could call, hit hand, check - get paid ( maybe call />all - but still going for a raise here though
raising is suicide vs a maniac who is gonna flat in pos wiv ATC call /> shove /> fold /> raise i think, but this rely's on being able to play well post flop Posted by SHANXTA
Id say generally that shove /> fold /> call > raise
but fold is sometimes better than shove as in this situation
But i cant argue with your record Mr M! so maybe i need to learn how to play post flop here lol
might play some dyms later actually.. its been a while
I've been over why I think making-up is bad. The raise also looks really bad to me. It's good if it draws the fold, but most of the time it won't. So when we're called we're playing an inflated pot, out of position which we will hit 1/3 times. Some of those times we hit will be a ten with an overcard on the board - T4K for example. Where are we now? What do we do when we miss?
What do we do when we are 3-bet all-in, pre-flop? Our AT doesn't look so good anymore.
Raising less than all-in is probably the worst thing we can do here.
raising is suicide vs a maniac who is gonna flat in pos wiv ATC call /> shove /> fold > raise i think, but this rely's on being able to play well post flop Posted by SHANXTA
I'm glad you agree with the call in this spot : )
I still think fold is better than shove though as this type of oppo has SO many hands that he calls with that we are only 60% against.
But i deffo agree that shove is better than raise.
I've been over why I think making-up is bad. The raise also looks really bad to me. It's good if it draws the fold, but most of the time it won't. So when we're called we're playing an inflated pot, out of position which we will hit 1/3 times. Some of those times we hit will be a ten with an overcard on the board - T4K for example. Where are we now? What do we do when we miss? What do we do when we are 3-bet all-in, pre-flop? Our AT doesn't look so good anymore. Raising less than all-in is probably the worst thing we can do here. Posted by BorinLoner
Yep and oppo will miss 2/3 c bet
Can't see oppo who limps is suddenly going to go from uber passive to uber manaic in one street :S
What has oppo been shoving before ATC ?<-------------- important If so then just wait for made hand, 18bb - we can wait right
In Response to Re: Did i shove too early in this DYM? : I'm glad you agree with the call in this spot : ) I still think fold is better than shove though as this type of oppo has SO many hands that he calls with that we are only 60% against. But i deffo agree that shove is better than raise. IMO Call />Fold />Shove />Raise Posted by Poker_Fail
Basically hit flop or just get out of dodge can't say this is bad, and probably is the easiest way to play it )
Just can't get my head around the concept of, even though we know we are ahead of oppo range here, we still decide to call and fold 2/3 flops when facing any kind of bet from oppo on flop, which obviously we will because oppo is a maniac who limps then goes mad )
The information we have is that the opponent has been shoving since level 1 - Third post in the thread - so we can't make any assumptions about him being passive. Besides this, our problem is that, because we'll be first to act on the flop, we'll be forced to gamble whether our opponent has missed or no, on those 2/3 occasions that we miss. We'll have to lead out on KJ3 boards and cross our fingers that our opponent folds. That's a very -EV play, especially playing DYM's where half the field is paid and moreso in this spot, one elimination from getting paid.
The fold is definitely best against this player, then the shove. I wouldn't even contemplate limping or raising.
The information we have is that the opponent has been shoving since level 1 - Third post in the thread - so we can't make any assumptions about him being passive. Besides this, our problem is that, because we'll be first to act on the flop, we'll be forced to gamble whether our opponent has missed or no, on those 2/3 occasions that we miss. We'll have to lead out on KJ3 boards and cross our fingers that our opponent folds. That's a very -EV play, especially playing DYM's where half the field is paid and moreso in this spot, one elimination from getting paid. The fold is definitely best against this player, then the shove. I wouldn't even contemplate limping or raising. Posted by BorinLoner
FWIW I agree, wait for made hand and wait for manaic to undo trousers
but
depends what has oppo been shoving and what streets or just a maniac shoving from level 1- open shoving op ?
The information we have is that the opponent has been shoving since level 1 - Third post in the thread - so we can't make any assumptions about him being passive. Besides this, our problem is that, because we'll be first to act on the flop, we'll be forced to gamble whether our opponent has missed or no, on those 2/3 occasions that we miss. We'll have to lead out on KJ3 boards and cross our fingers that our opponent folds. That's a very -EV play, especially playing DYM's where half the field is paid and moreso in this spot, one elimination from getting paid. The fold is definitely best against this player, then the shove. I wouldn't even contemplate limping or raising. Posted by BorinLoner
When i say call I have no intention of bluffing a missed flop, it is a mere 50 chip risk
No, no I know what you're saying. That post was addressing the possibilty of the raise pre-flop. Sorry I didn't make that clear. Posted by BorinLoner
Oh ok, I do agree that a fold is better than a shove and that a raise is bordering on suicidal, I just think for a mere 50 chips it is worth looking to hit a piece of the flop vs the sort of oppo who'll call weak post flop
i'll try and reply to everyone at once as i'm in a bit of a rush
thinking it over i'm pretty certain that its call > fold > shove > raise
obv maniac is wrong description, lets just describe villain as loose
vs most players i back my post flop ability and this is why my pre flop range is far larger in the early stages of dyms than any other reg i can think of.
if i've missed anything i apologise and i'll reply again later
You're the shortest stack, and for that reason, I don't mind this shove, even though you have 18 big blinds. You're really unlucky that the big stack has made a terrible call and hit, but you usually scoop the pot uncontested here.
i'll try and reply to everyone at once as i'm in a bit of a rush thinking it over i'm pretty certain that its call > fold > shove > raise obv maniac is wrong description, lets just describe villain as loose vs most players i back my post flop ability and this is why my pre flop range is far larger in the early stages of dyms than any other reg i can think of. if i've missed anything i apologise and i'll reply again later Posted by SHANXTA
Cool so now we do agree properly : )
BTW my range is pretty wide too as I think it's an underestimated strategy
Comments
If you don't like playing oop then just fold
btw, how is oppo a maniac by limping - lols
If manaic is shoving then just raise/snap oppo shove )
suppose we could call, hit hand, check - get paid
but fold is sometimes better than shove as in this situation
But i cant argue with your record Mr M! so maybe i need to learn how to play post flop here lol
might play some dyms later actually.. its been a while
What do we do when we are 3-bet all-in, pre-flop? Our AT doesn't look so good anymore.
Raising less than all-in is probably the worst thing we can do here.
I still think fold is better than shove though as this type of oppo has SO many hands that he calls with that we are only 60% against.
But i deffo agree that shove is better than raise.
IMO Call />Fold>Shove>Raise
c bet
Can't see oppo who limps is suddenly going to go from uber passive to uber manaic in one street :S
What has oppo been shoving before ATC ?<-------------- important
If so then just wait for made hand, 18bb - we can wait right
FOLD
can't say this is bad, and probably is the easiest way to play it )
Just can't get my head around the concept of, even though we know we are ahead of oppo range here, we still decide to call and fold 2/3 flops when facing any kind of bet from oppo on flop, which obviously we will because oppo is a maniac who limps then goes mad )
so droll )
fun thread
The fold is definitely best against this player, then the shove. I wouldn't even contemplate limping or raising.
but
depends what has oppo been shoving and what streets
or just a maniac shoving from level 1- open shoving op ?
loaded up 4x 3.30 dyms and dudenit keeps raising my bb
sigh
I don't know what FWIW means, but good, we agree... I don't want to see anyone undoing their trousers though.
and +1 to the trousers
BTW my range is pretty wide too as I think it's an underestimated strategy