In Response to Re: Can I / Should I rep the Ace. : we dont know what the weaker player has raised with at this point. you always want to isolate the weaker players at the table. playing a hand is a lot easier when you are better than the person you are playing against. in all honesty our cards are not that important here. we have position, we are better than the villain and with aggression we will take the pot down 90% of the time. when we 3bet pre we probably arent thinking about taking the pot at showdown unless we really hit the board hard at which point we look to induce a call rather than induce a fold. using cleaverjim's thinking - when we 3 bet he thinks we have 10 10+...so when he calls our flop cbet he must be strong because he thinks we are strong (assuming he has any basic poker understanding). this is exactly why i think we should check it down in the hand posted in op. with a wider 3bet range its easier to build pots with your stronger hands and take down pots when you dont have the best of it. if you only raise 10 10+ any half decent player will just fold to every single 3bet you do because you only have a good hand. Posted by huuuuume
I dont think we want to isolate worse players regardless of cards, unless they are extremely weak passive postflop. We have no reads here. Villain has minraised utg, which as you say prob means he's bad, but unless we know we can make him fold pre or on flop a lot all we are doing is creating an inflated pot with the worst hand. I agree we shouldnt just 3bet the top 2% of our hands, but widening to 3bet suited connectors v what looks like a bad unknown doesnt seem like a good idea to me. Obv against some players its fine.
Do you auto 3bet this gut with any playable hand? If I was going to isolate v what looks like a fish I would prefer 3bet more big broadway hands than scs, though I would go the opposite way v competent players
nice post junglegeek, only problem i have with this is a) on sky poker the chances of people seeing if your 3betting 2 % or 5% of the time is almost 0% due to lack of software, and this is nl10 and 95% of people are not even looking at your 3 betting range. good post mind.
Isolating fish is crucial, but you need to consider his range before doing so, this is not a great 3 betting spot tbh, (but its not bad).I would check that flop v a fish/donk for pot control, As played, betting the A? i don't like it, you need to be thinking; is you'r opponent thinking about you'r range? will he ever fold a k? and tbh the Ace is well in his range even after calling on the flop, giving up here is best imo.
You should not play fancy at nl10 tbh, play position, play TAG style, and thinking about you'r opponents range will (with a bit of logical thinking) ensure you crush this level. Isolate limpers more, raise big pre with premium hands if the pot is opened by a min-raising-fish, just play solid poker; so do not make irrational bluffs.
pre-flop is the best street to start to introduce somes bluffing into your game because it is the cheapest. If you 3-bet-bluff and have to fold to a 4-bet then it will typically cost you around 9BBs. A bluff on a later street could cost you as much as 50-60BBs
Preflop not always best place to bluff, in fact v a lot of bad players it may be the worst. It costs less but you win less, its a risk reward thing. If you took streets in isolation (prob not best way to think about it) you need your bluffs pre to be sucessful more often than on other streets as your raises are usually larger relevant to the pot
The other advantage to 3-bet bluffing is your image. If you are 3-betting about 2% of the time then the regs will start to notice and know that your range is roughly QQ+ or AK and will play accordingly. Either they will: a)just fold and you win 4.5BBs each time; b) adjust their 4-bet range to KK+ and you have to go all in as a 4:1 dog most times; or c) call your 3-bet with small PPs and SC in a fit-or-fold state of mind knowing that all they have to do for your full stack is beat an overpair. If you 3-bet about 5% of the time then suddenly this small difference changes your image. You are 3-betting twice as often and your opponents will start 4-betting you with QQ and even JJ thinking they are ahead.
Yeah you need to 3bet so you cant be put on just premium hands. Regs will sometimes adjust well, bad players generally wont. If they 4bet JJ+ v a 5% 3bet range, they will be ahead of your range (doesnt mean they should 4bet them). Regs will also sometimes 4bet bluff you. Yeah you need to 3bet bluff sometimes v regs, but villain in this hand prob not a reg
If your light 3-bets get called then your flop c-bets will be much more sucessful in 3-bet pots than normal since most players will have a hand that missed the flop but have every reason to believe that you have an over pair. Most times in a standard pot (no 3-bet) players will call c-bets with all sorts of 1-pair hands and draws because they think you have overcards, 3-betting pre makes the "I have an over pair" c-bet more difficult to float. Since at low levels players tend to call 3-bets too often you should 3-bet light with hands where you give yourself a good chance of flopping a monster. 89s is a good candidate since you only have to show up once with a 9-high straight, beating your opponent's set and they think you are a maniac.
Why would your cbets get more respect if you 3bet more often?Why would they think you have an overpair if you 3bet more often? 89s isnt a bad hand to 3bet bluff but the reason isnt because you might flop a straight v a set and opponent will think you are a maniac. I would prefer Axs hands though. Not too sure we should be 3bet bluffing villain in this hand too often
In this particular pot I think if you are going to 3-bet and the fire a c-bet on the flop the 4h is a total brick. To keep the story going at this point you have to fire a second barrel. I think you are better to bet the turn than check the turn and then bet the river, since you might make him fold here and you can always hit the flush if he calls.
In summary your line here doesn't make much sense. You 3-bet in possition which is good, bet the flop, check the turn and then bet the ace on the river. Looks like a busted flush draw to me. The check on the turn gives it way
Why can check on turn be Ax giving up on bad barrell card. Or JJ checking for pot control? or less likely Kx for deception? Posted by jugglegeek
3bet bluffing is a useful and important weapon v regs. But unless they are pretty bad nitty regs they will adjust and we have to be able to deal with the dynamic that brings, which will involve getting it in in much more marginal spots. 3bet bluffing v bad players isnt usually a great idea imo, widening your 3bet value range is a better plan imo
overall why do we 3 bet light, only for balance imo true we can widen our 3 bet range so we are 3 betting for value but you would need to have lots of meta verus oppo Why are we 3 betting in this spot ? To take down pot pre,flop, turn ? Guess it's a double edged sword when we flop some equity and half ou brain says pot control and the other half says rep, rep, rep ) imo don't deviate from the original story )
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Comments
Because the answer is in the question..why 3 bet?I really cant see what your gripe is tbh but my question was why would you!
When you did, i explain in detail i wouldnt bet into a paired board!
Then i explain once youve bet i would then check it down!
What else can i say on the hand!
They are my views!
Do you auto 3bet this gut with any playable hand? If I was going to isolate v what looks like a fish I would prefer 3bet more big broadway hands than scs, though I would go the opposite way v competent players
Isolating fish is crucial, but you need to consider his range before doing so, this is not a great 3 betting spot tbh, (but its not bad).I would check that flop v a fish/donk for pot control, As played, betting the A? i don't like it, you need to be thinking; is you'r opponent thinking about you'r range? will he ever fold a k? and tbh the Ace is well in his range even after calling on the flop, giving up here is best imo.
You should not play fancy at nl10 tbh, play position, play TAG style, and thinking about you'r opponents range will (with a bit of logical thinking) ensure you crush this level. Isolate limpers more, raise big pre with premium hands if the pot is opened by a min-raising-fish, just play solid poker; so do not make irrational bluffs.
pre is ok
probably double barrel
either way I'd give up on river tbh
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overall why do we 3 bet light, only for balance imo
true we can widen our 3 bet range so we are 3 betting for value but you would need
to have lots of meta verus oppo
Why are we 3 betting in this spot ? To take down pot pre,flop, turn ?
Guess it's a double edged sword when we flop some equity and half ou brain says pot control and the other half says rep, rep, rep ) imo don't deviate from the original story )
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