id call u have them all covered its a bounty hunter and if u do lose still have 5k in chips Posted by IDONKCALLU
I'm pretty happy with a call here, just wondering what you guys think the bottom of all the ranges are and what the bottom of my calling range should be? Imagine I have QQ, JJ or AK, do we call with any of these hands?
Got a fun hand for you guys. I raise, I actually have Kings, I get three shoves. Thoughts? BTW it's the £110 BHer Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance ThexMajor Small blind 75.00 75.00 4341.25 nagrom Big blind 150.00 225.00 3310.00 Your hole cards K K billo0007 Fold DivsDreams Fold TommyD Raise 300.00 525.00 10050.00 CrazyBen23 All-in 1178.50 1703.50 0.00 ThexMajor All-in 4341.25 6044.75 0.00 nagrom All-in 3310.00 9354.75 0.00 TommyD ? Posted by TommyD
Guessing you snapped this off without hesitating and one off them flipped AA over? One of those hands that is completely standard at the time but when you have a few minutes thinking it over, you start to question whether you can get away. TBH though I think you can maybe find if you consider all factors. The fact there is real possibilty of someone having AA, the fact you have invested so little into the pot and finally, the fact your equity isn't going to be great against all 3 players ranges. FWIW I snap call all day long.
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : I'm pretty happy with a call here, just wondering what you guys think the bottom of all the ranges are and what the bottom of my calling range should be? Imagine I have QQ, JJ or AK, do we call with any of these hands? Posted by TommyD
As for seperating our range here to what we call with and what we muck, I think it's a very clear cut line. I think all the hands you mentioned should be a fold, leaving only AA and KK we can call with. HOWEVER, the fact we have the security of having them all covered, the amount of opponents we could bust, the fact it's a bounty huntaa! and something I never mentioned the size of the pot we could potentially ship and therefore go onto crush, all give us reason to call off a lot lighter than AA or KK.
Given all the factors involved I think this is a call. Its only sicker for you as you are the last into the pot and you know it will be 4 handed. The fact this is a £110 and therefore you know these players are competent helps a bunch.
Crazyben can be reshipping tht stak very wide.
Tex knows this and could iso relatively wide 88+ Aq+
Nagroom Knows tex might be isolating too and could see a spot to get 2 bounties, I'd expect him to still have a hand here. But if he i capable of gambling here he could do this with 10+, AK maybe AQ suited but that would be thin IMO.
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : Guessing you snapped this off without hesitating and one off them flipped AA over? One of those hands that is completely standard at the time but when you have a few minutes thinking it over, you start to question whether you can get away. TBH though I think you can maybe find if you consider all factors. The fact there is real possibilty of someone having AA, the fact you have invested so little into the pot and finally, the fact your equity isn't going to be great against all 3 players ranges. FWIW I snap call all day long. Great diary BTW. Posted by Curt360x27
Cheers Curt
Ok, SPOILER ALERT!
No one had AA, and yes I did call. It was going to be a snap until the third player came in and then it was a 'WTF is going on here? Ok call' snap.
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : As for seperating our range here to what we call with and what we muck, I think it's a very clear cut line. I think all the hands you mentioned should be a fold, leaving only AA and KK we can call with. HOWEVER, the fact we have the security of having them all covered, the amount of opponents we could bust, the fact it's a bounty huntaa! and something I never mentioned the size of the pot we could potentially ship and therefore go onto crush, all give us reason to call off a lot lighter than AA or KK. Posted by Curt360x27
Remember that I don't think anyone with a hand is too concerned about my range. I have been 'active' and min raise opening plenty as per usual. I've done a lot so it could be 67s as much as it's AKs. Ben's very short so is jamming any pair/ lots of Aces/maybe KQ/KJ. I thought at the time that maybe Ben's shove had started a BHer feeding frenzy which justified the call if I needed further justification. Nag's undershove into Thex who covered was my only real concern, at the time I put Nag on a really tight range but not one to justify folding Kings pre.
As for the bottom of my calling range, I personally feel QQ is just the right side of the line to call but AK is just a fold. The later is a fold as I must be up against a pair and some of my outs should be in the other hands (especially the Aces obviously). Queens as a call? Just IMO, it's hard to be dealt Kings or Aces and with my image I think it is +ev to call with them here purely as all of the other reship ranges are slightly bigger against me and in a BHer. Jacks is a headache and probably just a fold.
Given all the factors involved I think this is a call. Its only sicker for you as you are the last into the pot and you know it will be 4 handed. The fact this is a £110 and therefore you know these players are competent helps a bunch. Crazyben can be reshipping tht stak very wide. Tex knows this and could iso relatively wide 88+ Aq+ Nagroom Knows tex might be isolating too and could see a spot to get 2 bounties, I'd expect him to still have a hand here. But if he i capable of gambling here he could do this with 10+, AK maybe AQ suited but that would be thin IMO. Posted by pr1nnyraid
I agree with most of this Pr1nny, but you have one vital mistake in your post. Nag is undershoving into Tex, therefore cannot win that bounty. I think that makes Nag's range a lot stronger.
But on the whole that's exactly how my thoughts went at the time.
Don't think i'm ever folding kings there, i am worried about Nagrom and nagrom only, but still calling all day . Obviously got alot of cards to avoid regardless, but run good ...
Edit. I definately fold jacks and AK here, QQ would be an absolute headache. probably find a fold, just because i get to see what everyone has. badd ? Not sure
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : Remember that I don't think anyone with a hand is too concerned about my range. I have been 'active' and min raise opening plenty as per usual. I've done a lot so it could be 67s as much as it's AKs. Ben's very short so is jamming any pair/ lots of Aces/maybe KQ/KJ. I thought at the time that maybe Ben's shove had started a BHer feeding frenzy which justified the call ifI needed further justification. Nag's undershove into Thex who covered was my only real concern, at the time I put Nag on a really tight range but not one to justify folding Kings pre. As for the bottom of my calling range, I personally feel QQ is just the right side of the line to call but AK is just a fold. The later is a fold as I must be up against a pair and some of my outs should be in the other hands (especially the Aces obviously). Queens as a call? Just IMO, it's hard to be dealt Kings or Aces and with my image I think it is +ev to call with them here purely as all of the other reship ranges are slightly bigger against me and in a BHer. Jacks is a headache and probably just a fold. Posted by TommyD
Agree with you about AK being a fold for reasons you mentioned. As for calling with QQ here, it's one them when we hover the cursor over the call button, then the fold button, the call button again, say a few swear words, then make our decision on which button we feel like pressing. Personally I find the fold button with QQ here, just.
Don't think i'm ever folding kings there, i am worried about Nagrom and nagrom only, but still calling all day . Obviously got alot of cards to avoid regardless, but run good ... Edit. I definately fold jacks and AK here, QQ would be an absolute headache. probably find a fold, just because i get to see what everyone has. badd ? Not sure Posted by 1267
Hey mate.
First up congrats in besting me HU in the early BHer yesterday, you played like a beast.
A vital point I think is that my CO opening range is perceived as wide. With Ben pretty short it's probably not going to be as wide as usual (then again I could always miss his stack size). My perceived range makes me of little concern to Thex and Nag as I can only call with a very small part of my opening range here. I think this makes QQ just a call but I can totally understand the opinion of folding them. The case for the call is the counter point for the fold with AK, if no one has AA or KK they should be sharing some cards. It's still very close though IMO and on another day I could well be saying fold.
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : Agree with you about AK being a fold for reasons you mentioned. As for calling with QQ here, it's one them when we hover the cursor over the call button, then the fold button, the call button again, say a few swear words, then make our decision on which button we feel like pressing. Personally I find the fold button with QQ here, just. Posted by Curt360x27
I don't swear while playing poker, I get told off too much by the GF for doing it.
GF: 'You're creating a bad atmosphere, if you can't play happy then you should stop playing'
Me: 'You don't understand, I had (*) Queens and then suddenly three people shove in and I'm not sure what to do. I mean, Queens is a really good hand but four ways is nasty, they might have-
GF: 'Don't play if you're going to get angry'
Me: 'Did you (*) hear me, it was a really tough situation and I was a little frustrated so I-'
GF: 'Maybe you should stop playing if you're going to be in a mood.'
Me: 'Sigh, sorry, won't happen again'
GF: 'I've seen these new Ugg boots....'
The (*) represents the exact moments in the conversation where the GF phases what I am saying out.
Well done on getting your SPT seat on the cheap, not easy those sats Tommy.
Interesting hand that. Its nagrom i am mainly worried about. Ben is short and is doing that with a widish range cos he assumes your range is wide. Thexmajor also will get it in reasonably wide from memory.
Nags is a very good tightish player and wont be stacking off light, unless he fancies a gamble to trebble up and take ben's bounty with a speculative hand, again unlikely.
I think it's a call tho, due to the amount you have behind. If i had a similar stack to the others and was at risk of elimination, i could sigh fold the KK due to reduced equity 4 way. Its close tho!
Well done on getting your SPT seat on the cheap, not easy those sats Tommy. Interesting hand that. Its nagrom i am mainly worried about. Ben is short and is doing that with a widish range cos he assumes your range is wide. Thexmajor also will get it in reasonably wide from memory. Nags is a very good tightish player and wont be stacking off light, unless he fancies a gamble to trebble up and take ben's bounty with a speculative hand, again unlikely. I think it's a call tho, due to the amount you have behind. If i had a similar stack to the others and was at risk of elimination, i could sigh fold the KK due to reduced equity 4 way. Its close tho! Posted by GREGHOGG
Cheers Greg.
I ran really well obviously, I just hope I play better at DTD than I have done at Blackpool and Cardiff. I really need to work on my live game.
On the hand, maybe I have my thinking backwards but say if I'm on 5k doesn't it make it more of a call with Kings? It's a great spot to treble+ up and have a go for the win? Serious question, does anyone think this thinking is awry?
if I'm on 5k doesn't it make it more of a call with Kings? It's a great spot to treble+ up and have a go for the win? Serious question, does anyone think this thinking is awry? Posted by TommyD
That's an interesting question. I guess the answer is that it's a snap call with a large or a small stack in a BH. But is there a range of stack sizes in the middle where you should/could get off it? Maybe not with KK, but more possibly with QQ.
In Response to Re: Many Rivers To Cross. A Diary. : Cheers Greg. I ran really well obviously, I just hope I play better at DTD than I have done at Blackpool and Cardiff. I really need to work on my live game. On the hand, maybe I have my thinking backwards but say if I'm on 5k doesn't it make it more of a call with Kings? It's a great spot to treble+ up and have a go for the win? Serious question, does anyone think this thinking is awry? Posted by TommyD
Its probably my bad nitty habits coming back and its my thinking that's flawed tbh. The old "Mtt life" debate..
I will try to explain it though. My thinking for folding from a 30-40bb ish stack is that i have still got 30-40bbs and plenty to play with if i fold... If i just call against 3 other similar stack players, where ive got to dodge at least one ace, and all sorts of other cards for my KK to hold (even if they are good), my "mtt life" is at risk. Im not gonna get stove out here, cos ive not got a clue how to use it! But i can comfortably call with KK from a big stack cos i have still got a very playable stack if i lose, and loads of bounties and a huge stack if i win...
Not saying i fold the KK at all in either situation btw. These days im prob calling in both fairly quickly. just my instincts veer more towards folding from the shorter stack. This is incorrect probably and a way of thinking that i thought i had eradicated, clearly not...
BUT there is at least one risk adverse player on that table, who has an incredible mtt record on sky.. Mr Dreams... Id be very interested on his thoughts on this situation.
I am also thinking that at the latter ends of a tourney like that, am I likely to get a better spot in which to give myself a chance of setting up the win, KK for you in that spot is for me a 100% call. I dont believe any of the other players will be putting you on a hand that strong with your customary min raise. True you are probably up against the likes of AK & pockets smaller than KK but some races have to be run & this particular one imo is a call.
Defo call in BH format no matter what your chipstack. If roller then maybe fold with shorter stack, but without knowing what his hand is, thexmajor wd be unlikely to try and isolate in roller and so situation wdnt arise. Nagrom has just over 20 bb ad so cd be doin dat wit TTJjjQQAKAQ imo
Cheers for the replies Greg, Woogie and Solly. Solly's range finder is pretty on there as well.
We're approaching hitting circles, I think we all agree KK is always a call, I think QQ is the real question. If I held that then it's pretty close but I'm still just in the call camp, which may be too loose. That would be a toughie. So here's the hand in full, considering my range and subsequent ranges and stack sizes I'm not sure anyone did anything wrong here in a BHer format.
Comments
Keep tuned for the Olympics, I think there will be a nice mixture of love and rants.
One of those hands that is completely standard at the time but when you have a few minutes thinking it over, you start to question whether you can get away.
TBH though I think you can maybe find if you consider all factors. The fact there is real possibilty of someone having AA, the fact you have invested so little into the pot and finally, the fact your equity isn't going to be great against all 3 players ranges.
FWIW I snap call all day long.
Great diary BTW.
Ok, SPOILER ALERT!
No one had AA, and yes I did call. It was going to be a snap until the third player came in and then it was a 'WTF is going on here? Ok call' snap.
As for the bottom of my calling range, I personally feel QQ is just the right side of the line to call but AK is just a fold. The later is a fold as I must be up against a pair and some of my outs should be in the other hands (especially the Aces obviously). Queens as a call? Just IMO, it's hard to be dealt Kings or Aces and with my image I think it is +ev to call with them here purely as all of the other reship ranges are slightly bigger against me and in a BHer. Jacks is a headache and probably just a fold.
But on the whole that's exactly how my thoughts went at the time.
Edit. I definately fold jacks and AK here, QQ would be an absolute headache. probably find a fold, just because i get to see what everyone has. badd ? Not sure
As for calling with QQ here, it's one them when we hover the cursor over the call button, then the fold button, the call button again, say a few swear words, then make our decision on which button we feel like pressing. Personally I find the fold button with QQ here, just.
First up congrats in besting me HU in the early BHer yesterday, you played like a beast.
A vital point I think is that my CO opening range is perceived as wide. With Ben pretty short it's probably not going to be as wide as usual (then again I could always miss his stack size). My perceived range makes me of little concern to Thex and Nag as I can only call with a very small part of my opening range here. I think this makes QQ just a call but I can totally understand the opinion of folding them. The case for the call is the counter point for the fold with AK, if no one has AA or KK they should be sharing some cards. It's still very close though IMO and on another day I could well be saying fold.
GF: 'You're creating a bad atmosphere, if you can't play happy then you should stop playing'
Me: 'You don't understand, I had (*) Queens and then suddenly three people shove in and I'm not sure what to do. I mean, Queens is a really good hand but four ways is nasty, they might have-
GF: 'Don't play if you're going to get angry'
Me: 'Did you (*) hear me, it was a really tough situation and I was a little frustrated so I-'
GF: 'Maybe you should stop playing if you're going to be in a mood.'
Me: 'Sigh, sorry, won't happen again'
GF: 'I've seen these new Ugg boots....'
The (*) represents the exact moments in the conversation where the GF phases what I am saying out.
Well done on getting your SPT seat on the cheap, not easy those sats Tommy.
Interesting hand that. Its nagrom i am mainly worried about. Ben is short and is doing that with a widish range cos he assumes your range is wide. Thexmajor also will get it in reasonably wide from memory.
Nags is a very good tightish player and wont be stacking off light, unless he fancies a gamble to trebble up and take ben's bounty with a speculative hand, again unlikely.
I think it's a call tho, due to the amount you have behind. If i had a similar stack to the others and was at risk of elimination, i could sigh fold the KK due to reduced equity 4 way. Its close tho!
I ran really well obviously, I just hope I play better at DTD than I have done at Blackpool and Cardiff. I really need to work on my live game.
On the hand, maybe I have my thinking backwards but say if I'm on 5k doesn't it make it more of a call with Kings? It's a great spot to treble+ up and have a go for the win? Serious question, does anyone think this thinking is awry?
I will try to explain it though. My thinking for folding from a 30-40bb ish stack is that i have still got 30-40bbs and plenty to play with if i fold... If i just call against 3 other similar stack players, where ive got to dodge at least one ace, and all sorts of other cards for my KK to hold (even if they are good), my "mtt life" is at risk. Im not gonna get stove out here, cos ive not got a clue how to use it!
But i can comfortably call with KK from a big stack cos i have still got a very playable stack if i lose, and loads of bounties and a huge stack if i win...
Not saying i fold the KK at all in either situation btw. These days im prob calling in both fairly quickly. just my instincts veer more towards folding from the shorter stack. This is incorrect probably and a way of thinking that i thought i had eradicated, clearly not...
BUT there is at least one risk adverse player on that table, who has an incredible mtt record on sky.. Mr Dreams... Id be very interested on his thoughts on this situation.
We're approaching hitting circles, I think we all agree KK is always a call, I think QQ is the real question. If I held that then it's pretty close but I'm still just in the call camp, which may be too loose. That would be a toughie. So here's the hand in full, considering my range and subsequent ranges and stack sizes I'm not sure anyone did anything wrong here in a BHer format.
Oh and I've flopped worse in my time.