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this happens alot and is so annoying...

ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
edited March 2012 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
SUPERK1NG Small blind  15.00 15.00 2760.00
ClintonH83 Big blind  30.00 45.00 1940.00
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • K
   
walrusegg Call  30.00 75.00 1120.00
clenzac Call  30.00 105.00 1930.00
tillyseeed Fold     
SUPERK1NG Call  15.00 120.00 2745.00
ClintonH83 Raise  180.00 300.00 1760.00
walrusegg Fold     
clenzac Call  180.00 480.00 1750.00
SUPERK1NG Fold     
Flop
  
  • 8
  • 2
  • 5
   
ClintonH83 Bet  240.00 720.00 1520.00
clenzac All-in  1750.00 2470.00 0.00
ClintonH83 Call  1510.00 3980.00 10.00
ClintonH83 Show
  • A
  • K
   
clenzac Show
  • J
  • J
   
Turn
  
  • 2
   
River
  
  • 7
   
clenzac Win Two Pairs, Jacks and 2s 3980.00  3980.00
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Comments

  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    What is this about?? he doesnt raise or re raise me pre flop with JJ then goes all in on the flop?? im confused cause surley he'd of raised pre flop with a pair and  he cant have  any on the board because  why would he call pre flop? so im thinking either AK AQ AJ or a flush draw?? i  probably shud of folded  the flop but couldnt work it out but im seeing alot of  people not raising pairs pre flop
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    CrazyLew Small blind  75.00 75.00 1240.00
    ClintonH83 Big blind  150.00 225.00 1240.00
      Your hole cards
    • 9
    • 7
    		     
    waterbutt Fold     
    198400 Fold     
    Sabooo Fold     
    CrazyLew Raise  225.00 450.00 1015.00
    ClintonH83 Call  150.00 600.00 1090.00
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • J
    • 8
    		     
    CrazyLew Bet  150.00 750.00 865.00
    ClintonH83 Raise  1050.00 1800.00 40.00
    CrazyLew All-in  865.00 2665.00 0.00
    ClintonH83 Unmatched bet  35.00 2630.00 75.00
    CrazyLew Show
    • J
    • A
    		   
    ClintonH83 Show
    • 9
    • 7
    		   
    Turn
       
    • 8
    		     
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    CrazyLew Win Full House, 8s and Jacks 2630.00  2630.00
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance CrazyLew Small blind   75.00 75.00 1240.00 ClintonH83 Big blind   150.00 225.00 1240.00   Your hole cards 9 7       waterbutt Fold         198400 Fold         Sabooo Fold         CrazyLew Raise   225.00 450.00 1015.00 ClintonH83 Call   150.00 600.00 1090.00 Flop     10 J 8       CrazyLew Bet   150.00 750.00 865.00 ClintonH83 Raise   1050.00 1800.00 40.00 CrazyLew All-in   865.00 2665.00 0.00 ClintonH83 Unmatched bet   35.00 2630.00 75.00 CrazyLew Show J A       ClintonH83 Show 9 7       Turn     8       River     8       CrazyLew Win Full House, 8s and Jacks 2630.00   2630.00
    Posted by ClintonH83

    How horrible is this haha im getting some sick beat tonight!
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2012
    The 2nd hand is unlucky, but the call in the 1st hand is pretty horrible, I can't think of 1 possible hand you're gonna be happy to see him turn over.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    i agree but couldnt work out what he could have that was that good he wouldnt raise pre flop??
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2012
    Well your raise preflop was massive, so I wouldnt wanna be 3betting with JJ cos with the stack sizes he'd be completely comitted to the pot then and at these blinds levels, you're probably only gonna put your whole stack in pre with AA,KK, QQ, AK, so he is miles behind three quarters of the time
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    Well your raise preflop was massive, so I wouldnt wanna be 3betting with JJ cos with the stack sizes he'd be completely comitted to the pot then and at these blinds levels, you're probably only gonna put your whole stack in pre with AA,KK, QQ, AK, so he is miles behind three quarters of the time
    Posted by Lambert180
    my thing why didnt think he had a pre flop pair is why didnt he raise before me? it was him to act before me? ive just had another guy not riase pre flop with AA? i dont understand that play?
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  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying... : my thing why didnt think he had a pre flop pair is why didnt he raise before me? it was him to act before me? ive just had another guy not riase pre flop with AA? i dont understand that play?
    Posted by ClintonH83
    yes is weird why he wouldnt raise before you even if he is under the gun! im raising there 9.9 times out of ten. But i can understand his call utg with Js so he can see the flop texture before making a decision.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying... : yes is weird why he wouldnt raise before you even if he is under the gun! im raising there 9.9 times out of ten. But i can understand his call utg with Js so he can see the flop texture before making a decision.
    Posted by Dazler
    yeah i agree he has to call pre flop and going all in on the flop was probably the best thing for him to do with no A K or Q on the board. I should of folded to his all in but i just couldnt put him on anything? fair play to him he took me out but i dont like this no raising im seeing with pocket pairs
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited March 2012
    1. pre good, flop is pretty awful for your hand so you could just check fold, if you bet though it has to be bet fold, calling his all in is just spew.

    2. You can't flat pre out of that stack, shove or fold and with you having close to 0 fold equity its just a standard fold imo.
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  • rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited March 2012
      hand 1.
    fold  to the all in at this stage ... you still have 150 bbs and lots of time to build your stack. AK is only A high after all!
    At this blind level plenty of players will treat JJ as low - med pp and set mine for the big stack
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    ClintonH83 Small blind  50.00 50.00 3791.00
    moneyme Big blind  100.00 150.00 9448.00
     Your hole cards
    • K
    • A
    		   
    slowhors05 Raise  200.00 350.00 2670.00
    lgd Fold     
    NoEa5yCa5h Call  200.00 550.00 1706.00
    0805 Raise  500.00 1050.00 5090.00
    ClintonH83 All-in  3791.00 4841.00 0.00
    moneyme Fold     
    slowhors05 Fold     
    NoEa5yCa5h Fold     
    0805 Call  3341.00 8182.00 1749.00
    ClintonH83 Show
    • K
    • A
    		   
    0805 Show
    • J
    • J
    		   
    Flop
      
    • 7
    • 2
    • 3
    		   
    Turn
      
    • 8
    		   
    River
      
    • Q
    		   
    0805 Win Pair of Jacks 8182.00  9931.00
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance ClintonH83 Small blind   50.00 50.00 3791.00 moneyme Big blind   100.00 150.00 9448.00   Your hole cards K A       slowhors05 Raise   200.00 350.00 2670.00 lgd Fold         NoEa5yCa5h Call   200.00 550.00 1706.00 0805 Raise   500.00 1050.00 5090.00 ClintonH83 All-in   3791.00 4841.00 0.00 moneyme Fold         slowhors05 Fold         NoEa5yCa5h Fold         0805 Call   3341.00 8182.00 1749.00 ClintonH83 Show K A       0805 Show J J       Flop     7 2 3       Turn     8       River     Q       0805 Win Pair of Jacks 8182.00   9931.00
    Posted by ClintonH83
    so after my last horror  story with AK i listened and took some advice hahaha Deja vu

    can he really call my all in with JJ? i think i fold it
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2012
    Your first hand has been pretty well covered.

    The second hand: I agree with Dudeskin that you should never call pre-flop given your stack size. Given the flop, neither you nor your opponent is deep enough to fold and your opponent has been coolered. You've been unlucky after that but you can't blame your opponent for it.

    I like your third hand alot more. Your opponent probably should fold his JJ - he's basically hoping that you show AK because it's the only hand in your 5-betting range that he's not dominated by - but we can't complain about our opponents' play. The times when you take the hand down pre-flop and win all the dead money (which will add more than 1/4 to your stack) added to the times you'll win the hand at showdown definitely make the shove a profitable play. The fact you have AK makes AA and KK less likely and, when called, you'll see underpairs most often.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    Your first hand has been pretty well covered. The second hand: I agree with Dudeskin that you should never call pre-flop given your stack size. Given the flop, neither you nor your opponent is deep enough to fold and your opponent has been coolered. You've been unlucky after that but you can't blame your opponent for it. I like your third hand alot more. Your opponent probably should fold his JJ - he's basically hoping that you show AK because it's the only hand in your 5-betting range that he's not dominated by - but we can't complain about our opponents' play. The times when you take the hand down pre-flop and win all the dead money (which will add more than 1/4 to your stack) added to the times you'll win the hand at showdown definitely make the shove a profitable play. The fact you have AK makes AA and KK less likely and, when called, you'll see underpairs most often.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    What shud i do then with with this AK? i get that on the first one i should of folded pre flop but like i say the flat call of 30 pre flop then calling my raise i didnt put him on anything on the flop and thought he was bluffing basically which he could of been but i agree i should of folded!

    The second one should of of just called and seen a flop? hit nothing and folded? is that a better option than to go all in against someone who wont fold JJ? im confused what to do cause im losing that much with AK when i get it i just feel like folding it hahahaha
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2012
    The first hand with the AK you played fine until you called the all-in on the flop. You only had six outs against any made hand. Even if you were right and he was bluffing, he could have been bluffing with a draw. If he only has a flush draw here, even though his hand is losing to yours at the moment, he's the favourite to win the hand.

    The second time you had AK (Posted at 8.57pm) you played it exactly the way I would have done.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2012
    Yeah the 2nd AK hand is better.

    I know it can sound obvious, but remember, you can not affect what decisions your opponents make, you can only make sure that you make the right decisions.

    The theorum of poker says that everytime you play a hand the exact same way you would do if you knew his hand, then you've made the correct decision, and if I knew he had JJ I'd shove, because you're gonna win 50% of the time (well, slightly less) and but you're gonna make him fold quite often too.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    louise1966 Small blind  10.00 10.00 1990.00
    ClintonH83 Big blind  20.00 30.00 1980.00
     Your hole cards
    • A
    • A
    		   
    dearjame08 Raise  60.00 90.00 1940.00
    BBC831 Fold     
    phillips8 Fold     
    MICKMILLER Call  60.00 150.00 1940.00
    louise1966 Fold     
    ClintonH83 Raise  180.00 330.00 1800.00
    dearjame08 Call  140.00 470.00 1800.00
    MICKMILLER Call  140.00 610.00 1800.00
    Flop
      
    • 9
    • 10
    • K
    		   
    ClintonH83 Bet  610.00 1220.00 1190.00
    dearjame08 Raise  1220.00 2440.00 580.00
    MICKMILLER All-in  1800.00 4240.00 0.00
    ClintonH83 All-in  1190.00 5430.00 0.00
    dearjame08 All-in  580.00 6010.00 0.00
    ClintonH83 Show
    • A
    • A
    		   
    dearjame08 Show
    • 10
    • 10
    		   
    MICKMILLER Show
    • J
    • K
    		   
    Turn
      
    • 5
    		   
    River
      
    • 7
    		   
    dearjame08 Win Three 10s 6010.00  6010.00
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: this happens alot and is so annoying...:
    Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance louise1966 Small blind   10.00 10.00 1990.00 ClintonH83 Big blind   20.00 30.00 1980.00   Your hole cards A A       dearjame08 Raise   60.00 90.00 1940.00 BBC831 Fold         phillips8 Fold         MICKMILLER Call   60.00 150.00 1940.00 louise1966 Fold         ClintonH83 Raise   180.00 330.00 1800.00 dearjame08 Call   140.00 470.00 1800.00 MICKMILLER Call   140.00 610.00 1800.00 Flop     9 10 K       ClintonH83 Bet   610.00 1220.00 1190.00 dearjame08 Raise   1220.00 2440.00 580.00 MICKMILLER All-in   1800.00 4240.00 0.00 ClintonH83 All-in   1190.00 5430.00 0.00 dearjame08 All-in   580.00 6010.00 0.00 ClintonH83 Show A A       dearjame08 Show 10 10       MICKMILLER Show J K       Turn     5       River     7       dearjame08 Win Three 10s 6010.00   6010.00
    Posted by ClintonH83
    hahahahaha :'(
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited March 2012
    AA hand - 3bet MUCH bigger pre, 250+ here OOP, if you 3bet bigger pre stack to pot ratio is closer and makes it easier to get it in, as played you make a pot bet which is too much imo and even with that strength two players still go all in before you so clearly have something it could just be two draws but against both I don't think you're ever gonna be that big a favourite. 

    You have 60bbs if you fold which is plenty so I think you can cut your losess here, obz if just one oppo goes all in you have to call it off but two makes it really hard for you to be ahead especially as that flop hits their calling ranges quite hard.
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